Strat-O-Matic HOF Vote?

[Breeze]

I've been playing Strat Baseball for years, and I've completed the 1961 - 1976 seasons. I'm now at a point where I can start electing players for the HOF. However, I'd like some outside opinions, so my personal biases don't impact the results quite a much. I'm curious if there would be any interest from the community in voting on a players HOF status?

If there is interest - I was planning to create a poll thread for each players vote, but initially I would not provide the player name or team (if I provided team and position, it would be easy for you guys to figure out the name. As it is, I expect you'll know pretty quickly). After the voting was over I'd provide the player name.

Given that in my universe, there is no baseball pre-1961. I'd also provide some context, like lifetime leaders in the major categories. Plus each players stat page will include their WAR (as SOM calculates it), Awards won, Post Seasons appeared in will be noted, All-Star appearances will be obvious, etc.

Let me know.

[Breeze]

Here is an idea of what the information you'd be voting on will look like:

Position: Leftfield
Bats: Left | Throws: Right

7x All-Star
3x Silver Slugger
Batting Title
1x ALCS Appearance

Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
1961	⭐		149	590	94	176	22	6	30	99	54	74	3	1	.298	.358	.508	.866			3.2			
1962			162	627	91	175	22	9	17	99	85	83	9	7	.279	.367	.424	.791			2.4			
1963	⭐		161	640	89	167	33	5	32	99	65	74	8	2	.261	.325	.478	.803			4.5			SS
1964	⭐		162	663	102	217	38	1	31	111	47	105	16	6	.327	.376	.528	.904			7.4	7.4		
1965	⭐		162	628	103	175	30	1	42	104	90	92	4	3	.279	.369	.530	.899			6.8	6.8		
1966			162	671	90	173	22	2	32	103	50	70	1	4	.258	.309	.440	.749			3.3			
1967			162	659	125	173	21	12	38	77	53	55	1	2	.263	.319	.504	.823			5.5	5.5		
1968			162	664	80	193	29	9	25	106	41	47	3	0	.291	.332	.474	.806			5.3	5.3		
1969			162	658	89	171	26	7	16	88	48	81	3	0	.260	.308	.394	.702			1.7			
1970	⭐		162	650	125	216	32	4	43	125	68	65	19	6	.332	.395	.592	.987			9.1	9.1		
1971	⭐		159	620	108	197	35	7	23	99	85	44	3	1	.318	.399	.508	.907			6.7	6.7		SS
1972	⭐		158	596	110	203	41	3	32	105	79	45	8	7	.341	.420	.581	1.001			8.1	8.1		SS
1973			155	573	66	151	20	4	18	69	66	76	4	0	.264	.339	.407	.746			2.1			
1974			138	430	55	126	18	0	18	76	70	29	1	1	.293	.392	.460	.852			2.4			
1975			162	591	77	142	24	0	33	93	78	80	0	0	.240	.331	.448	.779			2			
1976			106	364	35	76	11	0	12	47	53	45	3	1	.209	.308	.338	.646			-0.1			
Total		16	2484	9624	1439	2731	424	70	442	1500	1032	1065	86	41	.284	.353	.480	.833			70.4	48.9	59.65	

[Chas in Cinti]

Love this, and I'm in! I do the same thing in OOTP and it's always hard to take out biases.

[Breeze]

Hey Chas,

Looks like you’re the only one interested. Not sure it’s worth creating a new poll thread for voting if it’s just you. If you want to comment on the example above, I’ll post another one here for you to consider once you do.

[Chas in Cinti]

So, without context of the league as a whole... this guy looks like a HoF to me. Reminds me of Dave Parker with a bit more pop. I use 8 AS games as a tollgate personally, he has 7. He's also REAL close on the auto-elect numbers of 3000 hits or 500 HR. He does have the 60 WAR and 1500 RBI which are tollgates for me.

I'm gonna say Yes.

[Breeze]

Yeah, sorry should have provided more context. The all star games are even more of a measuring stick than real life. In my replays, the all-star game takes place after the season, so there are no half season darlings that make it. Also, I only take 28 players (2 at catcher and all infield positions, 5 outfielders, 10 pitchers, and 3 additional players), plus not every team is represented.

Some other points that might be helpful (doing this from top of mind, don’t have the game in front of me)

- highest lifetime ave at this point is .321
- most HR is 469
- most wins 264

[Breeze]

Let me know if I can provide any data that would be helpful to provide context. And I voted yes on the player above as well. Want to take a stab on who it is?

[Chas in Cinti]

The power is what is throwing me off... I would have guessed Kaline or Willie Davis... I don't think Dick Allen would have that high a BA... too early to be Yaz... too late for Clemente...

How about Stargell?

[Breeze]

Good guess…. Billy Williams

[Chas in Cinti]

Ah, I should have got that one... this is fun! LOL

[Breeze]

Shortstop
World Series Champion
World Series MVP
5x All-Star
5x Gold Glove
1x Silver Slugger

	Career																								
	Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
	1961			156	642	83	163	19	2	7	67	33	38	42	13	.254	.290	.322	.612		*6	2.5			GG
	1962			161	600	64	137	19	7	6	62	39	39	22	9	.228	.271	.313	.584		*6	1.8			GG
	1963			154	645	91	153	16	7	6	53	49	33	57	16	.237	.293	.312	.605		*6	4	4		GG
	1964	⭐		159	636	113	193	26	4	10	55	56	55	86	20	.303	.359	.404	.763		*6	8.1	8.1		GG
	1965			152	595	70	133	23	14	12	51	51	52	31	8	.224	.285	.370	.655		*6	3.7			
	1966			152	677     100	191	28	7	8	53	40	36	27	6	.282	.322	.380	.702		*6	6	6		GG, wsMVP
	1967			161	601	49	138	15	2	8	54	32	54	13	5	.230	.267	.301	.568		*6	2.1			
	1968	⭐		153	627	65	168	29	2	7	48	46	44	19	7	.268	.319	.354	.673		*6	4.7	4.7		
	1969	⭐		154	622	105	189	25	7	5	51	75	45	21	8	.304	.381	.391	.772		*6	6.7	6.7		
	1970	⭐		157	615	95	207	31	2	2	53	73	42	13	14	.337	.406	.403	.809		*6	6.5	6.5		
	1971			133	455	40	125	23	0	6	51	29	55	1	1	.275	.320	.365	.685		*6	3.1			
	1972	⭐		137	481	61	140	35	2	10	49	32	26	3	7	.291	.335	.435	.770		*6	4.7	4.7		SS
	1973			134	535	56	136	15	0	0	43	33	47	6	0	.254	.295	.282	.577		*6	0.7			
																									
	Total		13	1963	7731	992	2073	304	56	87	690	588	566	341	114	.268	.320	.356	.676		*6	54.6	40.7	47.65	
																									
		 																							

[Chas in Cinti]

Seems like a solid player, but I'm going to vote "No" on this one.

Maybe Leo Cardenas?

If most/all of those years are with the same team, I think he'd be a Team HoF kind of guy, but not Cooperstown.

[Breeze]

This is the end of Luis Aparicio’s career. He’s a tough one, mostly because on his own, he doesn’t appear like a HOFer, but compared to the rest of baseball at that time, he’s miles ahead of all but a couple of guys. It’s tough call.

[Chas in Cinti]

I get it... I would need to see a couple more of EITHER GG or ASG... cause his counting stats are good, not great. OBP is not elite... even for that time... is it?

IRL, he had way more ASG and GG... WAY MORE. And over 600 more hits!

[Breeze]

He definitely had more in real life. I believe he had 10 actually, with several coming from before 1961, when he was leading the league in stolen bases year over year.

His election status is currently unresolved. He has enough yes votes to stay on the ballot and be reassessed in the future.

[Breeze]

Third Baseman
10x All-Star
All-Star MVP
3x Silver Slugger
3x Gold Glove

Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
1961	⭐		154	588	91	180	43	6	29	99	68	80	2	1	.306	.373	.548	.921		*5	6.3	6.3		
1962			162	581	61	126	16	3	15	71	60	87	3	0	.217	.293	.332	.625		*5/6	0.3			
1963	⭐		162	654	74	198	21	6	24	111	45	86	4	2	.303	.346	.463	.809		*5	5.6			
1964	⭐		162	584	97	165	29	10	34	94	111	103	5	1	.283	.396	.541	.937		*5	9.2	9.2		SS
1965	⭐		162	631	84	175	27	3	30	91	71	124	2	1	.277	.350	.472	.822		*5	6.9	6.9		
1966	⭐		157	598	101	174	24	7	35	111	91	86	1	0	.291	.388	.530	.918		*5	8.7	8.7		
1967	⭐		159	587	95	177	23	5	34	108	95	101	0	2	.302	.398	.532	.930		*5	9.2	9.2		SS, asMVP
1968	⭐		154	564	85	155	26	0	30	92	100	120	1	3	.275	.385	.480	.865		*5	8	8		SS, GG
1969	⭐		144	526	99	143	12	2	33	88	88	81	0	2	.272	.383	.490	.873		*5	6.7	6.7		
1970			157	567	99	144	19	3	28	92	100	118	1	0	.254	.363	.446	.809		*5	5.2			
1971			153	579	61	131	27	0	20	83	75	107	3	0	.226	.312	.377	.689		*5/7	3.4			GG
1972	⭐		142	483	69	138	20	4	14	64	80	82	4	3	.286	.395	.431	.826		*54/67	5			
1973	⭐		147	540	68	154	38	3	22	80	50	94	0	2	.285	.350	.489	.839		*5	4.8			GG
1974			12	7	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	0	.143	.143	.143	.286		D/346	-0.1			
		14	2027	7489	1085	2061	325	52	348	1185	1034	1270	26	17	.275	.364	.472	.836		*5/4673	79.2	55	67.1	

[Chas in Cinti]

Ok, so this guy doesn't have the elite counting stats, but based on the AS appearances, and the elite OBP I would say he would get in on my ballot.

Trying to figure out who it might be... Ron Santo maybe?

I vote 'YES'.

[Breeze]

Yep - Ron Santo! And I voted yes here too

[Breeze]

Starting Pitcher
Right handed
8x All-Star
5x top 5 pitcher (this is an award I created to be a “silver slugger” equivalent for pitchers)
1x gold glove
3x World Series champion
1x World Series runner up

Year		Team	W	L	W-L%	ERA	G	GS	GF	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	WHIP	H9	HR9	BB9	SO9	SO/BB	AWARDS
1961	⭐		14	10	.583	2.75	27	27	0	11	3	0	213	179	73	65	15	70	130	6.7	6.7		1.17	7.56	0.63	2.96	5.49	1.86	DA
1962			16	11	.593	3.98	35	35	0	12	0	0	271.7	259	139	120	41	102	130	3.2			1.33	8.58	1.36	3.38	4.31	1.27	
1963	⭐		25	9	.735	2.43	40	40	0	20	4	0	325.3	263	102	88	30	66	241	9.3	9.3		1.01	7.28	0.83	1.83	6.67	3.65	DA
1964	⭐		16	11	.593	2.82	33	33	0	19	2	0	280.7	259	112	88	39	60	212	5.3	5.3		1.14	8.30	1.25	1.92	6.80	3.53	DA
1965	⭐		20	11	.645	2.68	37	37	0	22	6	0	309	256	115	92	29	61	269	6.7	6.7		1.03	7.46	0.84	1.78	7.83	4.41	
1966	⭐		24	11	.686	2.30	36	36	0	25	6	0	304.7	233	87	78	30	40	222	10.1	10.1		0.90	6.88	0.89	1.18	6.56	5.55	DA
1967	⭐		16	6	.727	2.47	27	27	0	13	3	0	214.7	196	66	59	15	46	185	5.9	5.9		1.13	8.22	0.63	1.93	7.76	4.02	
1968			11	20	.355	2.87	40	40	0	14	3	0	317	313	113	101	22	45	226	5.2			1.13	8.89	0.62	1.28	6.42	5.02	
1969	⭐		21	9	.700	2.42	36	36	0	21	4	0	301.7	260	101	81	20	54	190	8.3	8.3		1.04	7.76	0.60	1.61	5.67	3.52	DA
1970			16	14	.533	4.95	39	39	0	9	0	0	270.7	311	160	149	47	55	139	0.7			1.35	10.34	1.56	1.83	4.62	2.53	GG
1971			18	13	.581	2.90	38	38	0	10	3	0	285.7	243	112	92	20	45	166	5.1			1.01	7.65	0.63	1.42	5.23	3.69	
1972			12	10	.545	4.07	28	28	0	8	3	0	203.3	217	107	92	19	60	96	0.1			1.36	9.61	0.84	2.66	4.25	1.60	
1973	⭐		14	13	.519	2.96	31	31	0	10	3	0	218.7	212	94	72	15	37	107	3.8			1.14	8.72	0.62	1.52	4.40	2.89	
1974			3	4	.429	4.45	9	9	0	2	0	0	62.7	68	34	31	6	17	15	0.3			1.36	9.76	0.86	2.44	2.15	0.88	
1975			0	1	.000	9.00	2	2	0	0	0	0	5	9	5	5	1	3	1	-0.2			2.40	16.20	1.80	5.40	1.80	0.33	
TOTAL		15	226	153	.596	3.05	458	458	0	196	40	0	3583.7	3278	1420	1213	349	761	2329	70.5	52.3	61.4	1.13	8.23	0.88	1.91	5.85	3.06	
*no hit Dodgers 9/19/1969																													

[Chas in Cinti]

Hmmm... this guy was pretty dominant... I'm definitely voting "Yes" on this one. Trying to figure out who it was. A little late for Koufax... I'm thinking Bob Gibson.

I feel like this happens in baseball sims a lot... the pitchers never stay active long enough to get their counting stats up to the real-life toll gates.

[Breeze]

Juan Marichal. I voted yes as well.

[Chas in Cinti]

Ah, makes sense... after reviewing, it is EERIE how close his stats are.. even the ebbs and flows of the career...

[Breeze]

MVP				                     7x Superstar				Batting Title																
61 World Series Champion				4x Silver Slugger																				
68 & 72 World Series Appearance				1x Gold Glove																				
																								
																								
Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
1961	⭐		160	552	142	200	20	7	54	155	126	73	10	6	.362	.485	.717	1.202		*3	11.4	11.4		MVP, SS
1962			153	559	94	144	20	3	41	105	86	95	3	1	.258	.365	.524	.889		*3/7	4.7	4.7		
1963	⭐		162	570	80	149	21	0	28	96	103	79	4	7	.261	.382	.446	.828		*3	4.7	4.7		
1964	⭐		150	540	82	148	18	2	37	107	79	74	1	0	.274	.367	.520	.887		*3	4.8	4.8		
1965	⭐		149	557	101	146	26	3	38	105	67	73	10	4	.262	.350	.524	.874		*3	4.9	4.9		SS
1966	⭐		159	632	110	174	15	9	27	86	76	100	4	0	.275	.353	.456	.809		*3	4.7	4.7		SS
1967			141	498	67	105	15	1	25	93	77	109	4	0	.211	.327	.396	.723		*3	2.8			
1968	⭐		147	510	68	128	21	0	33	72	59	103	0	0	.251	.329	.486	.815		*3	4.4			GG
1969			137	499	79	146	14	3	24	86	68	86	1	0	.293	.385	.477	.862		*3	4.5			
1970			144	430	67	111	23	1	18	74	75	72	1	0	.258	.377	.442	.819		*3	2.9			
1971	⭐		132	473	85	137	13	7	37	102	54	89	3	1	.290	.367	.581	.948		*3	5.3	5.3		SS
1972			131	463	64	120	23	0	27	86	59	68	0	1	.259	.342	.484	.826		*3/6	3.5			
1973			112	408	64	104	20	0	21	69	52	88	4	0	.255	.353	.458	.811		*3	2.2			
1974			25	67	4	17	1	1	2	16	8	15	0	0	.254	.333	.388	.721		*3	0.1			
Total		14	1902	6758	1107	1829	250	37	412	1252	989	1124	45	20	.271	.369	.501	.870		*3/76	60.9	40.5	50.7	

[Chas in Cinti]

I want to say no... but I have no idea who this could be... was thinking maybe Cepeda or Boog.... McCovey probably not...

Not enough longevity to get real elite counting stats... the HR and OPS is good... but his WAR isn't really elite, just very good. I do like his OBP though. I think he gets in in a down year when there's not a lot of real solid options, but probably not a year 1 election. That 1961 season is ludicrous... that was his first year?

[Breeze]

Actually, no that’s not a rookie year. Just the year I started my replay. He started in 1958.

Norm Cash. And currently he is not elected. Will be reassessed in a few years

[Chas in Cinti]

OHHHH.. do the total stats include the stats before the replay started, or did everyone start from 0?

[Breeze]

Yeah. I started at 61, with no previous stats recognized. So several players who debuted earlier are unfortunately penalized by that move. But Strat seasons are expensive and I have to start somewhere. Plus I’m using the strat encyclopedia function, and I didn’t want to have to cut and paste real stats to backfill results.

[Chas in Cinti]

Gotcha... that makes more sense now with some of these guys...

[Breeze]

Catcher
Bats R | Throws R

7x All-Star
4x Gold Glove
7x Silver Slugger
2x World Series Appearance

Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
1961			9	16	5	6	1	0	0	1	3	0	0	0	.375	.474	.438	.912		*2	0.2			
1963			122	417	42	109	17	5	15	53	44	86	3	0	.261	.336	.434	.770		*2	3.6			
1964	⭐		151	587	98	185	23	10	28	81	38	82	6	2	.315	.368	.532	.900		*2/3	8.2	8.2		SS
1965			129	445	37	103	19	0	11	48	35	78	4	1	.231	.295	.348	.643		*2	2.7			GG
1966	⭐		137	499	55	123	32	0	19	72	34	69	3	5	.246	.298	.425	.723		*2/3	4.4	4.4		SS, GG
1967	⭐		148	522	73	164	19	2	24	85	68	68	3	3	.314	.412	.496	.908		*23	8.9	8.9		SS, GG
1968	⭐		152	538	74	143	18	4	28	79	48	60	0	0	.266	.351	.470	.821		*293	6.4	6.4		SS
1969	⭐		149	534	71	150	10	2	26	67	65	59	2	4	.281	.365	.453	.818		*2/3	5.5	5.5		SS
1970			128	427	42	87	13	3	11	46	51	46	0	1	.204	.289	.326	.615		*2	1.8			GG
1971	⭐		142	532	84	148	26	4	33	104	49	52	1	3	.278	.352	.528	.880		*2	7.2	7.2		SS
1972			121	338	52	93	16	2	6	37	52	51	0	0	.275	.383	.388	.771		*2/36	4.2			
1973			142	469	45	123	19	2	10	55	37	33	0	0	.262	.326	.375	.701		*2	2.6			
1974	⭐		152	568	73	170	20	4	30	85	51	53	4	4	.299	.357	.507	.864		23	4.3			SS
1975			150	555	68	144	17	3	26	65	40	73	2	1	.259	.320	.441	.761		*2/3	5.2	5.2		
1976			78	230	22	72	16	1	1	20	17	24	0	0	.313	.365	.404	.769		*2/35	1.5			
		16	1910	6677	841	1820	266	42	268	898	632	834	28	24	.273	.345	.445	.790		*2/3956	66.7	45.8	56.25	

[Chas in Cinti]

I'm going to vote, yes. Not sure who it might be... but he obviously was a dominant outlier at his position.

[Breeze]

I voted yes as well. Just too dominant at a really weak position. It’s Bill Freehan.

[Chas in Cinti]

Never would have guessed him... good one.

[Breeze]

Rightfielder
2x World Series champion
1x LCS appearance
4x Gold Glove
7x all-star
Batting title

Year		Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS		POS	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Awards
1961	⭐		147	625	116	205	31	8	27	91	40	74	2	0	.328	.368	.533	.901		*9	6.5	6.5		
1962			147	597	79	189	32	6	12	73	31	78	2	3	.317	.349	.451	.800		*9	4.3			
1963	⭐		150	611	85	192	20	6	18	60	33	66	10	0	.314	.359	.455	.814		*9	5.3	5.3		
1964	⭐		162	673	114	229	34	9	19	99	58	102	3	1	.340	.393	.502	.895		*9	7.8	7.8		
1965			145	592	91	190	27	11	12	73	27	88	3	1	.321	.350	.465	.815		*9	5.4	5.4		
1966	⭐		162	681	107	186	27	7	30	117	49	125	2	3	.273	.318	.465	.783		*9	5.1			
1967	⭐		153	613	117     227	31	8	30	112	51	122	4	1	.370	.418	.594	1.012		*9	9.7	9.7		GG
1968			132	529	64	146	17	8	21	78	28	88	3	2	.276	.310	.457	.767		*9	4.6			GG
1969	⭐		136	530	81	187	21	12	17	96	44	94	4	0	.353	.403	.534	.937		*9	7.2	7.2		GG
1970	⭐		144	473	92	167	22	15	16	79	33	72	7	3	.353	.397	.564	.961		*9	5.9	5.9		
1971			146	520	71	172	30	5	11	79	34	73	3	5	.331	.367	.471	.838		*9	4.9			GG
1972			127	401	58	129	14	5	14	62	20	48	1	1	.322	.352	.486	.838		*9	3.9			
Total		12	1751	6845	1075	2219	306	100	227	1019	448	1030	44	20	.324	.366	.498	.864		*9	70.6	47.8	59.2	

[Chas in Cinti]

Sorry, been on vacation...

Can you give an idea about pre-61 activity? I feel like this is a gimme HoF'r that had a bunch of numbers before 1961...

[Breeze]

Im assuming your asking for your guess? Sure:

In real life he:

- started in 1955
- from 55-59 he won no awards, made no all star teams or received any mvp votes
- in 60 finished 8th in mvp voting and made the all star team
- in total during the window the player had the following stats:


.288/.320/.407 (.727). 42 hr, 861 hits.



Let me know if there any anything specific you’d like me to provide

[Chas in Cinti]

wow... then this dude would have had 3000 hits... maybe Al Kaline?

[Breeze]

Great guess. But no. Want another shot?

[Chas in Cinti]

Clemente?

[Breeze]

Yep!!!