Blue-Lightning of 2K Sports forums confirms that a 2K Football game is being made!

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I've wondered if they could go that far (mimic current players and number of teams) - seems like it would be too blatant. Mimic current players I'd think is definitely a necessity but thought they'd mix it up; maybe base it off real-life hypotheticals (What if San Diego drafted Michael Vick, what if the Texans drafted Reggie Bush instead of New Orleans, etc.) so EA/NFL couldn't cry foul. Also like your point about the fouls/penalties. I think they have a tremendous amount of freedom there; with a fictional league they could play fast and loose with current NFL rules/restrictions and allow stuff like penalties for late hits, allow celebrations like throat slashes, perhaps be a little less restrictive with the WR contact rule, inject personalities that mimic real life personalities, etc. as long as it didn't go over the top/be too arcadey

Legally, all ratings could be considered subjective. Likewise, there's no rules covering a black QB with 98 speed, 71 accuracy, and 95 arm strength being placed on an ATLANTA team.. perhaps even a left-handed passer.

Where the problem would begin is the "likeness" in terms of the graphics. 2K would have to purposely make the faces "generic" (think NCAA 2007) nor could they mimick any distinctive tatoos.

Basically, the same rules that govern the "likeness" rules being used in NCAA (where the kids "image" cannot be specifically used.) But you could do height, weight, relative "ratings", etc... but "identifiable" facial likenesses, specific tatoos, etc... would be a no-no.

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectre

I just hope that 2K is looking at Winning Eleven very closely. Back in the days, before they started getting licenses for some leagues, it was all customization. You could edit logos (and make very similar likenesses as a result to the real thing).

Yep, Winning 11 and the old "Hardball" series (pre MLB license) should be the pattern.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by quietcool72

Legally, all ratings could be considered subjective. Likewise, there's no rules covering a black QB with 98 speed, 71 accuracy, and 95 arm strength being placed on an ATLANTA team.. perhaps even a left-handed passer. Where the problem would begin is the "likeness" in terms of the graphics. 2K would have to purposely make the faces "generic" (think NCAA 2007) nor could they mimick any distinctive tatoos. Basically, the same rules that govern the "likeness" rules being used in NCAA (where the kids "image" cannot be specifically used.) But you could do height, weight, relative "ratings", etc... but "identifiable" facial likenesses, specific tatoos, etc... would be a no-no.

Interesting. I always thought "likeness" could be expanded to the city/team level, or at least the NFL could make the argument that it too closely resembles their product (for instance, if a generic game had an eastern division that had teams in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cinncinati, and Baltimore). thx for the clarification

[Spectre]

Quote: Originally Posted by quietcool72

Legally, all ratings could be considered subjective. Likewise, there's no rules covering a black QB with 98 speed, 71 accuracy, and 95 arm strength being placed on an ATLANTA team.. perhaps even a left-handed passer. Where the problem would begin is the "likeness" in terms of the graphics. 2K would have to purposely make the faces "generic" (think NCAA 2007) nor could they mimick any distinctive tatoos. Basically, the same rules that govern the "likeness" rules being used in NCAA (where the kids "image" cannot be specifically used.) But you could do height, weight, relative "ratings", etc... but "identifiable" facial likenesses, specific tatoos, etc... would be a no-no.

Well said- the good think about football is that with helmets, having a perfect face is not an overwhelming necessity. It's not like the NBA. There is considerable leeway in making a generic roster as WE and Hardball indicate.

[VCdolphin]

How far do you push it, though? EA, despite the bad press, would be only too happy to pursue legal action if it's even fairly close to the current NFL teams/players.

Could EA win in court? Maybe not, but they can afford legal fees and maybe get an injunction against a generic game. EA will want to protect the NFL exclusive they have.

The closer the generic game is to the real NFL, the more inclined EA will be to pursue legal action. It would be better for 2K Sports to have a 28 team league, with options for adding teams in, a long list of possible football cities (and put a team in LA and only one in New York) and no team that looks like the real thing (a slow white QB in Atlanta for example).

Gamers can "correct" all the details with the custom options, but 2K is free of any legal hassle.

[VCdolphin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectre

Well said- the good think about football is that with helmets, having a perfect face is not an overwhelming necessity. It's not like the NBA. There is considerable leeway in making a generic roster as WE and Hardball indicate.

Yeah, about faces? The more advanced the graphics, the more you have to get the details right. I thought most of the player faces on the 360 Madden games looked LESS like the real players then most in 2K5 on Xbox.

Having a selection of about 20 generic faces, and being able to just tweak hairstyles, facial hair and skin color would work fine.

As for the player photos? Use a game generated photo? Even Madden did this versus having a shadow outline, for players they didn't have a real photo of. Plus, players can change looks quite a bit during a season (shaving long hair or growing a beard/goatee).

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Interesting. I always thought "likeness" could be expanded to the city/team level, or at least the NFL could make the argument that it too closely resembles their product (for instance, if a generic game had an eastern division that had teams in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cinncinati, and Baltimore). thx for the clarification

Much of what happens isn't due to a firm "rule", but fear of litigation that clarifies a "rule". For instance, look at classic teams lately.. even on Madden. They spam false numbers on all the players. This wasn't always the case (Madden 93' and all the way up to 2002- had the positional classic players numbered correctly, but not named.)

As far as I know, there was no lawsuit that led to that change, but there's so many gray-areas, most devs try to play it as safe as possible for fear of litigation.

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by VCdolphin

How far do you push it, though? EA, despite the bad press, would be only too happy to pursue legal action if it's even fairly close to the current NFL teams/players. Could EA win in court? Maybe not, but they can afford legal fees and maybe get an injunction against a generic game. EA will want to protect the NFL exclusive they have. The closer the generic game is to the real NFL, the more inclined EA will be to pursue legal action. It would be better for 2K Sports to have a 28 team league, with options for adding teams in, a long list of possible football cities (and put a team in LA and only one in New York) and no team that looks like the real thing (a slow white QB in Atlanta for example). Gamers can "correct" all the details with the custom options, but 2K is free of any legal hassle.

You are right. The context of my comments were directed towards a notion where someone indicated that having a "michael-vick" ratings-like QB on an ATLANTA generic team would violate the rules. I don't see that happening on ratings, height, relative speed, and handedness alone.

As for EA litigation... here's the problem they would run into..and its pretty unique.

Lets say EA goes all "License Nazi" about player characteristics on a 2K game being enough to be called a "likeness".

lets say EA wins that case, and a precedent is set...

Lets say a player with the same height, weight, handedness, and race as the pro counterpart would then be inferred to be a "likeness".

"Likeness" becomes re-defined in the courts.

But..
Here's the Catch 22. That "re-definition" would work against them on their own college game, because the NCAA and its products is not to capitalize on the "likeness" of non-professional college players. (Same rules apply for why the cover athlete on NCAA is always no longer an NCAA player)

Then this would force them to further scramble the heights, weight, race, handedness of all the players in the NCAA games (College football, college baseball, college basketball).

Whoops!

So it could really work against them if they got hard-core on "likeness" precedents.