Differences you see in the Football 2k series and Madden series

[sleepytercel]

There's a lot to say to 2K's gameplay. Personally, I can't believe there are so many who hardly touched this franchise. I'll credit this series as the sports game that changed how sports games are viewed and played. When this game appeared on the Dreamcast, there was nothing...and I mean...NOTHING remotely close to what the team at Visual Concepts accomplished. I guess that's why Madden never appealed to me. When Madden appeared on the PS2, I already had a full year of 2K that was played at home. The original 2K that was released in 1999 still displays better animations, sound, and presentation than the current release of Madden. Crazy, isn't it?

What else kept me glued to this series? Well, when I decided to pick up 2K1, it was a slew better than the original. They added many new animations, options, and game mechanics that justified my next 39.99 purchase, also...while the original NFL2K changed sports gaming, NFL2K1 reinvented console sports by adding online play. It was the first console sports game to ever be played online.

Then 2K2 came out. Even though the DC was proclaimed dead, VC still released 2K2, while also adding new animations and AI logic, and expanding the online play to include win/loss ranks. That was an odd time because they offered PS2 and Xbox versions that expanded even greater than the DC offerings.

Then...8 short months later from the PS2 and Xbox verisons of 2K2 releases, they released 2K3. 2K3 offered an expanded animation system, more in-depth franchise, weekly highlights, pregame...halftime...and endgame highlights, ESPN presentation, more indepth running game, and nextgen graphics (for that time). While the game was slightly flawed (to some) with the catching abilities of the recievers, I've seen people online really know their football stuff with this game. It didn't feel cheap like 2K5 seemed to online. However, the game was a pure simulation of football...especially for its time.

Then, 2K4 came out. 2K4 introduced a graphics engine that was built from the ground up. It offered many new animations and expanded on gameplay, and increased the ESPN presentation to a whole new level. In fact, the graphics were so enhanced, I can't believe that they accomplished this in one short year. If you play 2K3 and then 2K4, you'd almost think it was a 4 year progression. Seriously, play Madden 03 and then 07 on the original Xbox, and tell me the "differences" in gameplay. Then, play 2K3 and 2K4 on the Xbox. Which game can you tell me evolved the most? Also, First Person Football was offered.

2K5 was then released. This game was expanded to take control of the original Xbox's power (something EA has never done). The game simply shines on the Xbox. With special renderings and lighting only on Xbox, full halftime replays where Berman calls play by play, a new momentum system, new tackling system, gang tackles (which I think were offered in 2K4...and still yet to be offered properly in Madden), expanded weekly shows that offered full replays of other games played, while also including your games played (it's cool to see your game make it in the show...the real play too), new presentation featuring Berman and Kolber in 3D polygons, new ESPN overlays. Lets not forget. VC also takes use of the PS2's harddrive to allow PS2 users the ability to see the full motion recaps that the Xbox offered. Since the HD was only offered in FFXI, they could have left the feature out, but nope, gave you one of the few reasons to have a HD for your PS2. All of this for a mere $19.99 (Thanks to the Madden fans who wouldn't touch this series, this was a steal for me).

So basically, this is why I kept with the franchise. Instead of spending 50 dollars and wondering what I really got for it, each year offered me a new experience. As soon as I started playing my new game. it was always evident what was new and changed. It felt like playing a new game, and each year, I couldn't wait to see what was added. VC seems to be glued with their gameplay offerings, while EA is more glued with added features. I hope this helps.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by sleepytercel

There's a lot to say to 2K's gameplay. Personally, I can't believe there are so many who hardly touched this franchise.

Wow - awesome trip down memory lane; great post. While I disagree w/some of your points you laid things out beautifully. I mostly mirror your views on NFL2K/2K1. 2K1 was revolutionary for bringing online to sports gaming over 56k when EA was steadfastly saying it couldn't be done. The funny thing is, of my friends that were big time Dreamcast/2K1 fans at the time, are almost all now Madden (current gen) fans.

I think there were a combination of factors why 2K played catchup. Limited exposure because of being a 1st party developer for the failed Dreamcast, the meteoric rise of the PS2 (GTA, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Madden - ridiculous lineup), and I think VC's own mistakes (they tried to match EA release for release at one point, stretching their resources imo) all contributed to the game not getting much recognition. I think Madden really established itself during the Madden 2002-2004 years - those were the years when people were most fanatical imo. After being a huge fan of 2K1, I found myself not liking 2K2 or 2K3 much. And I became a HUGE Madden fan; all night H2H trash talk sessions with friends/looking in on tournaments/online play all were reasons why.

Then EA went away from what made the game fun by catering the gameplay towards Michael Vick w/Madden 2004. And at that point, VC was refocusing it's efforts to make NFL2K play a more solid game of football. I remember over at Maddenmania, Kanobi opened a lot of our eyes to the subtlties the 2K series was offering. Especially the basics like OL/DL play and player interaction.

And at that point they never looked back imo. 2K4 had great player interaction and introduced FPF - which got clowned at the time, but eventually many came around to realize the huge potential the mode has. 2K5 imo was a defining moment in sports gaming with it's huge feature list. Online leagues, use of the hard drive to replay any play from the game, presentation, graphics, player interaction, etc. - just so much you could say the game introduced. Even little things like how the referrees are properly represented/follow plays, chain gangs, penalties properly reflected on the field, the challenge system... things that still haven't been touched by EA unfortunately, even on the next gen systems.

That said I do think there are some areas Madden has historically been better (primarily referring to current gen Madden, as it's considerably better than next gen Madden imo):

- franchise
- player movement/directional control (I think this hindered some from adopting 2K5 fully)
- minigames

Player movement will be huge w/AP2K8. There can't be any stiff running styles, and hopefully they've resolved the issues with directional control. If they have, and Madden/NCAA progress at their normal pace, I think it'll go a long way towards the game being accepted, even though it's unlicensed

[muggins]

short concise list:

better running animations
no suction blocking
real gang tackling
no touch tackling
better player models

thats all that I can think of right now.

[countryboy]

I wonder how long before this thread is locked due to the flame war that is about to commence?

[canikickit1]

Probably the only thing 2k5 didnt have were false starts, ball stripping, and easy laterals.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

I wonder how long before this thread is locked due to the flame war that is about to commence?

Don't know why a flame war would commence - there are both good/bad things about either series. And they're being discussed in a civil manner

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Don't know why a flame war would commence - there are both good/bad things about either series. And they're being discussed in a civil manner

Yea I see no problem with the thread

[blackceasar]

Im sure other people have touched on the same things Im going to touch on but. If Madden had stole 2k's visuals, presentation, and some aspects of thier gameplay I wouldnt have cared about the NFL deal. On that same note though I could say the same thinga bout 2k's baseball game (i know this isnt the baseball forum) but if 2k just stole a few things here and there from MVP, then I wouldnt have cared about that exclusivity deal either. I think Im okay personally with Maddens' graphics. Animations need work but I wont complain about the player models as much. I just want some real presentation. I want to feel like im watching the game on ESPN (doesnt exactly have to have the exact ESPN stuff though). I guess what frustrates alot of people is that EA with Madden is like that kid in the hood who youd know be a pro ball player and go to a top college if he applied himself more in school. The talent is there... its just a shame its hasnt reached its full potential. If there was no hope for Madden and no room to go from where it is already, then I dont think people would get AS upset with EA. But we KNOW there is so much more that could be done to make the experience overall much much better.

I do wonder, and no one has to respond to this because I dont want this forum to get off topic but I know that we wish 2k and Madden just combined both games and youd have the be all end all of football games..same goes for the two baseball titles. I do wonder however, which game is going get to "near perfect" first? Madden or MLB2k?