Worst Defense in this game (3-4)

[grunt]

I made my 3-4 defense and I played ok. I was expecting more of a pass rush from DT but I was able to play the run. I started to walk one of my safties into the box and I was able to contain the run.

[tpaterniti]

I use the 3-4 all the time and it works. I use it for coverage and confusion. It is hard to get a great pass rush in this game with ANY front or formation, so I don't find the 3-4 to be any more deficient than any other formation. It is not an every down formation because it is weak against the run, but it is useful. This is realistic. If you watch NFL films, you will hear coaches saying things like, "If they come out in a 3-4 run it again at them," and stuff like that. I think the pass rush deficiency is the game more than the formation as I said. Even when I blitz 8 from the Bear I have no chance at sacking a QB in the shotgun if he releases the ball quickly or even getting to a QB with a 3-
step drop from under center. That's just the way the game is programmed.

Remember, your pass-rushing frustration on defense is your pass protection relief on offense. In other words, as much as you would have liked being able to blitz the crap out of the QB, if 2K had made the game this way it would turn into Madden online where everyone just calls engage-8 and the QB never has time to throw the ball. Then people would be complaining about how the pass protection was so messed up that you couldn't do anything on offense. A balance must be struck between pass rush and pass protection and I think the balance 2K has come up with is pretty good.

[dunelly]

my 4-3 4lineman passrushing is about 10x better than my 3-4 pass rushing. (blitzing an OLB in 3-4)

This should not happen

[xrams]

Quote: Originally Posted by tpaterniti

I use the 3-4 all the time and it works. I use it for coverage and confusion. It is hard to get a great pass rush in this game with ANY front or formation, so I don't find the 3-4 to be any more deficient than any other formation. It is not an every down formation because it is weak against the run, but it is useful. This is realistic. If you watch NFL films, you will hear coaches saying things like, "If they come out in a 3-4 run it again at them," and stuff like that. I think the pass rush deficiency is the game more than the formation as I said. Even when I blitz 8 from the Bear I have no chance at sacking a QB in the shotgun if he releases the ball quickly or even getting to a QB with a 3- step drop from under center. That's just the way the game is programmed. Remember, your pass-rushing frustration on defense is your pass protection relief on offense. In other words, as much as you would have liked being able to blitz the crap out of the QB, if 2K had made the game this way it would turn into Madden online where everyone just calls engage-8 and the QB never has time to throw the ball. Then people would be complaining about how the pass protection was so messed up that you couldn't do anything on offense. A balance must be struck between pass rush and pass protection and I think the balance 2K has come up with is pretty good.

Tpat... as usual your posts are valued...!!!

[catcatch22]

I've gotten plenty of sacks out of the 3-4. However it's usually not by my outside rushing linebacker but by my defensive end who is next to him going up against a guard (Leonard Marshall). The speed difference between an outside standing up pass rusher and a tackle trying to block him is not really shown in this game.

Derrick Thomas was dominant cause of his speed. Same with Lawrence Taylor.

With the 4-3, the dline pass rush strength is much more benificial in the game than the linebacker pass rush speed. The outside linebacker rushes the tackle as if he is a big defensive end and not as a quick nimble linebacker.

[puja21]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

well, you can change the "fronts" but it involves manually moving the players. THe default fronts change, are all wrong. Manually moving kinda works, but even then, against most online opponent, you will not have the time.

correct me if im wrong (dont have the game), but wouldnt changing the fronts manually before the game not always alleviate the problem anyway? IIRC, the DL front selection in 2K5 of course included line pursuit angles. so, (assuming this is the same in 2K8) wouldn't the CPU-controlled linemen still blindly follow this aspect of the original play call in spite of any pre-snap movements you did for them.

example: if you move your strong-DE into a 6tech in a 4-3 over, but the "hidden" front call by CPU was originally the ol 2K pinch from a generic flat 4 DL, wouldnt the DE completely abandon the outside contain assignment you tried to manually push him into (so, nobody would contain the strongside, since the strong-LB is positioned just inside the TE)?

my assumption is that in spite of manually adjusting fronts, you will still almost always "have to" control a certain player to be effective (like Kruza was saying about the WS OLB in 4-3 over), but worse yet there will sometimes be more than one pos requiring human assistance to utilize the called formation like it's designed

[dunelly]

err kinda

Dline themselves dont seem to have actual gap responsibility
say... if you call base out of 4-3, the Ends arent going to have 7 technique, or 5s

rather, their responsibility is to go "down". So moving a DE out wide while calling base can help with contain. This is different for coverage men though, as zones/man coverage, doesnt matter how wide u move them. If in man, they'll still run inside and give up the contain. Zone, is partically the same, depends on if their zone is outside or inside, it might benefit more.

[tpaterniti]

I have been thinking about this and the reason for the weak 3-4 pass rush may be more about the OLBs in the game than about the way it is programmed. If you think about the OLBs that are really effective 3-4 pass rushers today, you think of Willie McGinest, Shawne Merriman, Joey Porter, Jason Taylor if he were in a 3-4 scheme. These are truly special players. There are only 4 OLBs in this game who are Gold or Silver and really only 1 pass rusher in the group. In part this is not even 2K's fault. If you look in the hall of fame at the LBs 90% of them are ILBs, probably because statistically the OLBs can't get enough sacks to compare with the DEs or enough tackles to compare with the MLBs. Also teams tend to put their best LB at MLB. So personnel may be the problem more than anything else.