A guide to reading defense and passing (long)

[ihategeeks]

I read a thread that asked how to read defense, so for the glory I'm starting a brand new thread on it. ^_^

2k8 is the most realistic football game ever created. IF I didn't believe that I wouldn't waste time teaching you how to play it. Keep in mind, I'm still learning the game myself(football not 2k8). If I make an error, please help me out. Everyone has some input when it comes to football. The game can be played in so many different ways. I am most familiar with the west coast offense, and so this guide will be based loosely on those concepts.

I have tried to apply this to madden before, it's pointless, it's all about money routes, exploits, arcade bs, and bad AI. The lack of a QB drop back system tied to the timing of passing routes in Madden is what makes me hate the game. And it's what makes 2k8 realistic. But enough about that crap.

The worst complaint that can be had about 2k8 is the AI doesn't always swat down passes you think it should. When in position, it does very well, so I think it's just a nitpick. You win or lose in this game because of how much you know about the game of football. You do not need great "stick skills" to win.


*If you are not going to invest time in practice mode, don't bother reading the rest of this*
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Step 1
First, you need to know how all the passing routes work in the game.
You need to know when to throw an out route, a slant route, a stop and go, a button hook, etc, etc, etc.
If you never master this, learning to read defense is pointless.
This is very easy to do though, and I am sure you've learned most of it if you have played the game at all. If you are not familiar with 2k8, you need to do this.

*example* on a 5 yard out route, (depending on your QB), you throw the ball as they make their break(strong armed), or just before. (everyone else)
You need to look at the play, and gauge the depth of the route. And know what that will look like on the field.
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Step 2
Next you need to learn how to throw, when to lead passes, how to throw a good deepball.
How to throw screens, how to throw in the backfield, how to throw to the TE's running through garbage. How to lead passes with MAX PASSING. When to lob, when to bullet.

I'm not sure if it's in the crap manual or not, but to MAX PASS, you press the button of the WR----- THEN you press the direction you want to lead on the joy stick.
It's your standard 8 directional lead, that you are probably used to from Madden, but you do it as your QB is winding up the throw. This also gives incentive to the player to stand in the pocket or set his feet before throwing.

The best way to learn how to max pass is to run offense only and throw deep bombs.
It's very fun to throw Deep bombs in 2k8, they actually go far now.
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Step 3
All Zones have holes, call plays that attack those holes.
Go in to practice mode, pick a Cover 1-2-3-4-8-12
And learn where those holes are. Call your play, and watch a replay if you can't figure it out.
You need to learn what all these zones look like to read a defense. You need to know what kind of passing routes exploit them. This is not hard, and you get better with practice. Eventually you will recognize the difference between cover 12 and cover 3 instantly.
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Step 4

You don't read the defense much before the play , you read it after you hike. Against a decent player most of what you see before the hike is nonsense. (See Patriots) The only things you look for before the hike are Package (4-4, Bear, Dime, Nickle etc) Man, Zone, and alignment ( DB inside outside bump back, Lb's stacked, over, under, etc. ) Packages look different. A cover 2 in a 4-3 does look like a Cover 2 in a Bear. The differences are subtle, and sometimes hard to see. The more packages you are familiar with the better. When you get online or in season mode and you see a package you aren't familiar with. You'll have to learn on the field. And that's what rookies do, and why rookies make rookie mistakes ^_^

Man - Zone pre snap read.

Man-
WR motion. Put a WR in motion, if the DB on that WR follows him all the way across the field, in that match up it is MAN, and most of the time you can expect man in the rest of the defense among CB's

LB alignment, if you have a TE on the field, an LB in man will play directly over him.

If you have multiple WR sets against a Nickle or Base defense, LB's will be pulled out of the base set to cover them.

Zone - LB Alignment.

WR Motion, if you send WR across the formation and the CB does not follow all the way across, that CB is in zone coverage, and you can expect the rest of the CB's in zone coverage.

LB alignment - If you have a multiple WR set, and there isn't an LB standing over your WR , but instead he is in the base alignment , the LB's in that alignment are playing zone.

FYI#
While these are good to know, they are not fool proof, there are ways to hide defense, players can call audibles.
If you are expecting blitz, or throwing short, you should try to make this pre-snap read if you are going to your WR.




DB Alignment is simple.
Shade Inside, advantage (a step) on inside passes
Shade Outside, Advantage (a step) on outside passes

If you see the DB shaded in or out, you need to adjust for that unless you have a big time mismatch. Even or close matches that extra step is all the DB needs to swat down a pass in zone or man.

DB alignment Press- Standard - Off
Again , simple.

Press, right on top of the WR
Standard- No Adjustments, 5 yards off
Off - More than 5 Yards

If you see Press, your WR will be bumped by the CB within the first 5 yards. This will effect route timing , and you need to compensate for it by waiting just a bit longer before throwing your pass. IF you are playing a team with great BUMP cb's , it could be a longer wait.

If it's standard the only time the CB's will bump your WR is in a cover 2.

When playing Off, the defense is covering the Deep Ball, or trying to trick you into throwing into a specific area thinking you have all that room.


FYI(cont)
In the instances where you are throwing to a WR hot read ,(A hot read is the #1 target on blitz recognition, Often shorter routes like in's out's and slants.),
This is where you actually want to make the pre-snap read of ZONE-MAN.
A CB in a short zone looks similar to a CB in man.

Short routes to the WR's as the first reads can be confusing. It's why the Cover 2 defense works so well against West Coast Offenses.

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Step 5- Post Snap Read Process

(one last Pre Snap Decision)
1. Separate the field into 3 sections depending on your pass play.
Right Middle Left / Left Middle Right / Middle Right Left / Middle Left Right.
This is your basic progression.

Here is where my WCO bias will come into play. I'm going to explain this in a WCO context because it's what I know and play best. You're also going to learn why it's considered more difficult as well. (FYI, if I say something completely stupid, please correct me, I rather not remain ignorant)
This is where your ability and creativity as a playcaller and coach comes into play (the more you get adjusted to reading defense, the more you'll realize you need to make a custom playbook for your custom team. *yes you can take these online ty T2*)

In my WCO I use the pass to set up the run, and the passing is in the short to intermediate range. For the most part.

I like to select plays that attack 3 depths at the same time
(Short, Medium, and Deep.)

And 3 coverages ( I lumped some together because the safety read is where the coverage read is made, and they look the same)
(Cover 2 , Cover 3/1, Cover 4/8/12)

And 3 defenses
(Man, Zone, Blitz)

Short passes attack the Cover 4/8/12
Medium Passes Attack the Cover 2
The Cover 3 and 1 have windows for everything.

(continued in step 6)






2. Put your Eyes on the LB's

3. Hike

4. Mentally Establish what the LB's are doing

If any come at you, it's a blitz.

They move back it's a zone,

If they are all moving in different directions, man.

4. Move your eyes quickly to the Safeties.

If they are moving backwards towards the sidelines it's a cover 2.

If they are moving mostly backwards , it's a cover 4/8/12.

If only 1 safety is moving backwards and crossing the field toward the center
it is a Cover 3 or a Cover 1. This is interchangeable, either the FS is playing center field, or the SS is playing center field. The SS always goes to your left, and the FS always goes to your Right.

This is a dual read. You need to read that is either cover 1 or cover 3, never guess.
Guessing can not be made in basic defensive reading. You must learn this read. And you must make it after the LB read. Never focus only on making this read. Learn to do it right. This is important because when you start to learn how to do more advanced defensive reads, your eyes moving up from the linebackers gives you a better peripheral vision of where not to throw the ball.
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Part II


You establish the difference between cover 1 and 3 by reading the safety that is not going towards centerfield.

If the Safety moves left or right, he's in zone. If he moves forward or back a step and stops he's also in a zone. If he is in zone, then it's a cover 3.

If the Safety moves with your WR , it's man.

TIP
In zone the safety will move on a 4 direction axis, in man he will move 360 degrees.
A good tip to train your eyes to do , is when you are making a cover 1/3 read, use your peripheral vision to see how that safety is moving, if he looks robotic, it's zone, if he looks fluid , it's man.

TIP 2
Cover 1/3 is the foundation for most NFL pass defense. Because it looks the same and forces you into another step of reading.
Similar to the Cover-2 / WCO relationship mentioned earlier.
You've made the correct LB blitz read, you have already taken that advantage away. There is no reason to rush against the Cover 3 or Cover 1. Cover 3 will have an open flat and a seem between the CB and CF safety. Cover 1 is typically man, and someone will get open eventually on a crossing route or comeback to you. Now, if you are playing the Dline from hell, you might want to rush a little bit because you have no choice. And in that situation you have no choice but to guess, and that's just the advantage good players on defense bring. But against anything else. Be Calm.
It would be a wise idea to call your own defense around the Cover 1/3 concept against players who appear to be reading your defense effectively.
Against idiots defensive creativity is wasted, so do whatever.

If you see both safeties in man, it's because they are blitzing LB's
and if they are blitzing LB's you've already thrown the ball anyway so why are you looking at the safeties ! AHHHHH!!! ^_-

6. Now it's time to go into your basic progression. This is where the magic is made and why you've invested so much time. You know what the coverage is. Now you need to establish who's open. Because just because they should be open, doesn't mean they are.
Reading the defense is your "composure", getting the pass to the open man is your "decision making" you need both traits to be a virtual Joe Montana.

Progression #1 is always HOT.
IF there is a blitz, throw here. If your really fast, you can have a dual hot read.
If there is a blitz here and/or there, I throw Here and/or there.
You don't have time for more than 2 unless the blitz was engulfed and destroyed.

Typically, you want your 2nd Hot Read to be medium or Deep so you don't get picked off in a short zone for a pick 6. Just starting out, only worry about 1. It's up to you and the defense to establish where that read will be. This is a little game before the game type deal.


Progression #2 is made after the defensive read of the Coverage (Safeties)
This is where you are "reading" the Cb's and coverage of the linebackers.
This is your Left / Middle / Right progression you made as you were picking your play.
Hopefully, you actually remember what the play is ^_ -

Example. Split Flip Pro- 90 Z Arrow is a play I would use.
X - 9 Yard Out (Medium) Left
Y - Skinny Post (Deep) Middle
B- Slant (Short) Right
LB - Left Flat (Short)
RB - Right Flat (Short)

Now, I think this guy I am playing is going to call a cover 2.
I picked the play anticipating that.


I Pre-snap read the defense, it's in a Cover 2 Shell, 4-3 Stack, Db's Tight and Straight Over.
I've established my first hot read will be the TE(Y), my second will be the Flanker(X).
I've picked a Middle / Right / Left Progression
I Hike
- I read the LB's They are all in man- No Blitz up front or sides. ( do not look for the CB blitz, see it out of the corner of your eye only)
-I read the safeties in Cover 2

(the computer in my mind has determined it is of high probability I am facing Cover 2 Man with Bump and Run Defense. I could gamble and throw to the route I know will be open against this defense, or I can go quickly through my progression, because there is no pass rush threat, I will continue the progression, if there was a pass rush threat, I would have to gamble)

Middle - Covered by the Silver Star LB in man, I'll leave that alone.
Right- Bumped by the CB
Left - Making his break.

Throw Medium Left (X), Completion, 8 yard gain.
2nd and 2, everyone is happy. Except the Defense.


Example of a full progression, Same play, Defense is "set up" the same, I've picked the same Hot Routes and Progression.
Hike - LB's- Zone
Coverage - Cover 3
(The brain CPU has determined that it is highly probable this is a standard cover 3 defense, and that my RB's in the flats will be open with room to run for an easy 3+, there is no pressure to throw, progression continues because I'm greedy)
Middle - Covered
Right - Covered
Left- Open But I do not like the matchup

Now in this offense I have a new set of progressions which more aggressive passing offenses follow. High and Low.
I look high, my TE has been picked up by Ronnie Lott, no thanks
I look low, both my RB's are still wide open and pleading for the ball. Again, I deny them.
I look high again my (B) Wr has ran all the way across the field into a large open seem in the defense behind the Lb's Under the FS who is chasing the Te and before the CB , looks like a 20 yard gainer, I let it rip.

Complete, 1st down, Everyone is happy, except for the defense and my running backs.

Now don't let the WCO reads intimidate you. You can run a High/Low offense as well.

I am not as familiar with how everything is done in it, or comfortable with it. So that's why I didn't explain it.


Low/High, High/Low is traditional passing progression. This is the Mike Martz school of offense. Stretch the field deep and take the underneath stuff. And when that is covered you chuck it deep. Instead of 9 reads all over the field, you have 2. It's simple.
I think it's even reduced to 1 half of the field as well?

Even more simple is a playaction offense. Which I don't feel I need to explain....
This is how football was played before they did all that fancy passing in Cleveland(?).
You have 1 read, the guy most likely to be open on an intermediate or deep pass because of how effective your running game is.


Left/Medium/Right -- High/Low -- Checkdown -- Run
is a traditional WCO passing progression.

In more aggressive or modern variants,
left to right is replaced with left or right (cutting the field into halves),
and then High/Low. I believe that is what Scott Linehan does?

If you seek to become the Master , you can do like Manning.
This is where advanced defensive reading comes into play. You hear those stories about Peyton Manning sitting in film rooms, practicing all the time.

The 2k8 version is you study VIP's before your play. You pick up defensive tendencies , break down the stats. Know everything about every legend on the defense. You roll into a game with Audibles in every formation, memorized. You use the formation shifts, motions. You can read a defense past coverage , zone , and blitz. You can read the defense to exactly what it is almost instantly, and even before you snap the ball because you're a monster. (advanced) You have a Cubed progression system that goes left middle right short medium deep. All of your passing routes are chaos , and you know all of them by memory. Even against a great secondary or defense, you do not need to run the ball, you know that there will always be an open man somewhere, and you will always find it.
You don't get 27 different endorsement deals though. Just acne and very pale.


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Here are some general tips I feel should be included.

Passing plays with the Number 90 in front of them are almost always 3 step drops.
50 = 5 Step Drops.

1 step and 7 step drops , I got no idea how you figure that out.
I don't think there is a way other than just knowing through memorization.

The drop back depth is X(2-4-6) steps, and 1 forward.

You want to let go of the ball as or just after you are stepping forward.
Pick progressions that match with drops.

Start progressions on the side with the most targets

In the playbook there are routes that are RED, this is your primary target, that does not mean it is your first target. This route is matched with your dropback. ( I guess that's one way to figure out if something is a 7 step drop , look at that , I learned )
The Red route is often one of three things.

A route will be open because of all of the other routes,
A route will make the rest of the routes open.
If this route isn't open, you're screwed. ^_-

In my example, the (B) WR was my red Route, all the other routes made him wide open deep in the progression with room to run. You have to figure out which that will be by extending the plays in your mind.

Build a team that fits your offensive style.
If you want to be a High/Low Passer, you need Tackles for your long drops. And Two Speed WR's.

Playaction, you need Mike Ditka basically


If you want to be a WCO, you need a Center for your short drops, RB's in the backfield that can catch, and a TE that can run fast and catch. Wr's should be of the route running possesion types, ala Jerry Rice.

[wooz123]

Wow! Thanks alot. Really good read

[TombSong]

Good read, I would add this to your pre-snap reads:

If you want to read if a defense is in man or zone D without having to send men in motion.
Use the fake formation feature. Come out lined up in a I formation jokers have it shift to a I spread or regular I. As your WRs move out to their new positions watch what the defense does.

Also make sure you pick fake formations that have WR packages you want in the play.

Also, If you see LB's running toward the LOS, its not always a blitz sometimes its the LB coming for the HB/FB that stayed in to block.

Also watch for the delayed blitz. Sometimes you can make that initial LB read too fast. on the snap the LB's take a step back like they are playing zone, then a second later(long enough for you to think zone, I dont have to watch them anymore) they are hard charging up the field toward your QB.

[ihategeeks]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

Good read, I would add this to your pre-snap reads: If you want to read if a defense is in man or zone D without having to send men in motion. Use the fake formation feature. Come out lined up in a I formation jokers have it shift to a I spread or regular I. As your WRs move out to their new positions watch what the defense does. Also make sure you pick fake formations that have WR packages you want in the play. Also, If you see LB's running toward the LOS, its not always a blitz sometimes its the LB coming for the HB/FB that stayed in to block. Also watch for the delayed blitz. Sometimes you can make that initial LB read too fast. on the snap the LB's take a step back like they are playing zone, then a second later(long enough for you to think zone, I dont have to watch them anymore) they are hard charging up the field toward your QB.

Jokers = WR, Jacks = TE's, that's the same in all formations

(Bold)
Yes, it's not a blitz technically, but as far as reading defense goes it should be treated the same because that guy is coming after you next.

[TombSong]

Quote: Originally Posted by ihategeeks

Jokers = WR, Jacks = TE's, that's the same in all formations (Bold) Yes, it's not a blitz technically, but as far as reading defense goes it should be treated the same because that guy is coming after you next.

True...True.