DOES BARRY SANDERS PLAY LIKE BARRY??

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by theshiznetno1

Could you elaborate more on this, and what does the L-stick on the PS3, jukes or the actual player movement?

Yeah, that's the movement stick on PS3, and I've discovered that it's tuned finer than I'd originally thought. You'll see it in practice mode: if you do a couple of stretch or counter plays and put different amounts of force on the stick, you will find that you can move half-speed, three-quarters, full speed. As plays are developing, it's best not to be trying to outrun everyone because you'll outrun your blockers as well, so I'd recommend practicing those types of runs until you're comfortable taking it a little slower as the blocks develop and then exploding once you see the crease. For someone like Barry with the Cutback ability, if that crease is a little to your right or left, you can really make some nice moves into it by pushing the movement stick laterally. Again, this is sensitive, so jam on it, and you'll see a pretty large cut; move it lightly, and you'll see a smaller one.

Part of the reason I think learning to use the movement stick at different speeds and for cutbacks is important for using backs like Barry is that the movement stick provides the "wiggle" that a back like him has. Some times when you move the stick slightly, you won't even see that noticeable of an animation, but it has an effect on defenders, who will miss just a little bit, allowing you to break tackles. It's not foolproof, which is a good, thing, but it allows you to do a lot of things where the big jukes aren't contextually appropriate.

Anyway, I hope that helps. I'm hardly perfect at this myself, but I've found a nuance there that's worth ironing out, and it's especially pertinent to using the shiftier backs. Good luck with it!

[TheShizNo1]

^^^^ Thanks

[RogueHominid]

De nada

[101]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

I played around with Barry a bit today and the strategy I used for Craig and Payton didn't do much of anything with Barry. It's awesome how different these guys are but pretty frustrating. In practice mode Barry was great in open space (spins and lt/rt jukes) and at breaking tackles (stiff arms and shoulder charge). It is much easier to use him without touching A. But bump it up to all pro and play a game and most of his "power" skills go down the tube. That's kind of a good thing I guess, but there should be another way of showing how he breaks (more like slips out of) tackles. If you get in open space you can get him to look like Barry though. It's just the slipping out of tight spaces part that's hard to get down.

I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I need placebo glasses, cuz Mike Rozier is everything Barry Sanders is save the ability to shed tackles. I don't think the special abilities are as well developed as you may think. Just being there doesn't really give the players a whole lot of personality over the next.

[Red Ronin]

Trojan Man: I knew pretty much all of what you wrote there, I've known it since NFL 2K on Dreamcast. You have made precisely the argument that I have stated as to why analog joypad movement control is better than the old school digital thumbpad. Honestly, your description of it is much more complete and thorough than I have managed when attempting to explain this concept to others. Excellent work!

I have found that when I'm not dead dog tired, I can be a bit more patient with running the ball outside, especially on sweeps. The problem is, when I get home from work, I'm usually dead dog tired. In addition to ZaGging when I want to ZiG, I'll take into account the fact I can barely lean the stick in the ZaG direction to deceive defenders prior to going full on ZiG in the future. That WiGGLE/WaGGLE action is definitely part of Barry Sanders' arsenal and I should take advantage of it.

One thing I have done that has helped my Rushing is to be more consistent when I'm on a Punt or Kick Return. Remember a couple of years ago when the Kansas City Chiefs were burning up the NFL with their Special Teams? There were a couple of profiles on and interviews with them back then where it was pointed out a few things about them. Though Dante Hall is incredibly fast and has great field vision, the fact is that he gets clear of the Defenders by setting up his blockers prior to a move. He knows the Defense is focused on him, so they aren't really looking at his Blockers. So he leads them into the Blockers, where they end up getting blindsided. That allows him to get further up field faster.

I've learned the same thing works for Rushing in APF2K8. You have to sort of say to yourself, "Wait for it... Wait for it... Wait for it... BLAMMO!!! Now GO! GO, GO, GO, GO, GO!!!" That is wonderful, cool, beautiful and all that rot. Replicates football pretty much perfectly and for around 99% of the Halfbacks in the game, that is precisely what they should do.

My problem though is that is not what Barry Sanders did in his career, at least, not that I remember... I saw him wait for Blockers when going up the middle, sure... When he went outside though he left EVERYBODY behind. This game forces you to be more patient with Barry than he was in the real world because he is so SLOW... He literally cannot make it around the corner without blockers AT ALL... To me that is SO wrong. It is exactly the way I'm sure a lot of Defensive Coaches would have loved to see things happen in the real world, but Barry Sanders changed their perspective somewhat.

Barry was most successful when he left his Blockers, left his Defenders and left everyone else at the field marveling about how quickly he got past them and down field. I'm not saying he was the fastest player of all time. I'm saying that in addition to being able to stop on a dime, he had a level of acceleration from zero to maximum that was QUICKER than anyone else's. That ability is not present in this representation of Barry Sanders.


Red Ronin

[RogueHominid]

Point taken, Red Ronin, and well said. I'm a little late to figuring the 2K games out, so forgive the belated realization and the disquisition I do think you're right about the outside runs, and I'm not sure if there's a way to get him to break away like he did in real life by more stick magic. I have seen Sayers do it to me more than once, though; when he's fresh, that guy just flies.

I'd love to hear your secret on returning punts and kicks. I don't know if it's the way the screen transition works on punts, but I can never tell which direction I'm going to have daylight in, and most of the time I don't have any. It's like my outside guys are allergic to blocking gunners. My kick returns are utterly pedestrian as well, so if you've got any strategy tips you're willing to share, I'm all ears

[Stevo]

If Barry played exactly like he did in real life, it would be too cheap online. I think VC got him just about right without making him too cheap.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

I spent some serious time in practice mode today and discovered some things that others may already know, but if you don't, it could make a difference in how you use and/or interpret Barry's representation in the game. I play on All-Pro, and I use Marcus Allen on my main team, but I think there's a basic similarity that holds for both in the cutback ability. I think this is a significant ability to understand when not running with power backs. I play on PS3, and my time in practice mode today was all about learning how to be finer with the L-stick. I called stretch and counter plays, and found out a few things, some of which are more obvious than others. First, when you're running, follow the angle of the play art. That's baisc, but it sets up the blocks, which sets up the creases, which sets up Barry's ridiculous change of direction and stop-start ability. Second, go 3-4 on the stick as the play is developing, then start moving the L-stick more deliberately once you see daylight. With Marcus, this did wonders, as he was able to make cutbacks that most defenders just couldn't keep pace with. Also, remember that these are stackable: a small wiggle will make guys miss, even if you can't see a huge move in the animation sequence, and with a guy with cutback ability, you can cut hard left and then hard right in the time it takes the average defender to do one of the two. I don't know as much about spins and stiff arms, but to those who haven't discovered what the cutback ability can mean with the right back, I hope this helps; otherwise, forgive the pedantry and the fourth Dogfish Head

I had the same success (and posted about it) but as far as I can tell, practice is set to pro and can't be changed. When I tried it in games it wasn't nearly as successful. The way you have to run is spot on (and has been that way forever in 2k games) but it's success at making barry more barry-like takes a big hit.

Quote: Originally Posted by 101

I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I need placebo glasses, cuz Mike Rozier is everything Barry Sanders is save the ability to shed tackles. I don't think the special abilities are as well developed as you may think. Just being there doesn't really give the players a whole lot of personality over the next.

check my other post... i'm more with you. it can be done though b/c i can see it in practice. i'm still chalking it up to user error right now but it's not as clear cut as i was hoping.