Quick Outs - The unstoppable money play?

[Red Ronin]

It's been my experience that cornerbacks and safeties do this already in APF2K8. There are a lot of factors to consider. Try playing a season with John Brodie at QB instead of Young, Montana, Stabler or Cunningham and you'll be amazed at how often defenders in the secondary knock down passes or flat out snag them for interceptions in comparison... It just gets worse when you play against created defenders.


Red Ronin

[DA_Kenny]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I think what they really need is for defensive players to learn routes. In coaching terminology they call it route reads or pattern reads. They need to have guys start getting smarter if a person keeps doing that mess. See it would be good if you could cover it manually, but there is one problem with that, you can only cover 1 area/side. It's the same thing in Madden. Alot of guys will play with a team that has 2 WR's that can jetpack. So what they do is if you cheat to one side and try to stop that, then they'll just throw the jetpack to the other side. You can't cover both. So what DB's and linebackers need is to read patterns on the fly so if you keep doing the same thing, fool me once shame on me, but you aint gonna keep fooling me. They should have it based on tiers. A gold CB for instance you throw whatever route on him once and he's starting to look for it again. But you have to throw it one time at least. A silver CB two times and a bronze CB 3 times. This way fools will have to mix up their routes and stop running the same routes over and over. It also gives incentive to use double move routes like out and up, curl and go more often. I don't see that many people using these and it's a shame because they are really good routes in the game.

yea adaptive ai, would be great, this has been one of the wishlist but they never incorporate it.

If an opponent keeps using the same place every other down, the defense should be able to react and stop it.

[TombSong]

I think the adaptive AI is suppose to be you the play caller. If you call the right plays for what you are seeing, you will succeed at stopping the offense. You all are saying what you are seeing and trying to stop, are you calling defenses that stop what you say you are seeing done to you ?

What VC needs to do is INSURE that the plays that suppose to stop outs in fact DOES that. You will also have to keep in mind that there is a window where a defense holds up and then breaks down. If a QB is getting more than 5 seconds to throw the ball eventually a WR is gonna work himself open.

Right now the only thing I see wrong with the defense is the zones defenses dont always seem to defend routes that go beyond the numbers on either side of the field. Man coverage takes care of that, but I should not have to rely on man coverage to defend a zone that should be defendable with a zone coverage. However, this problem scales with the abilities of the defenders. Legend DB's play their zones better than generics so maybe this is by design, I dont know.

I wish a dev would chime in here and maybe explain some of the logic behind whats going on with the zones and shading your defenders to play the outs.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by LIGHTNING

The hot route slant to the outside is really a corner route. It is most effective if you hot route the outside receiver and lob the pass. You often complete it right near the sidelines. To complete this pass in real life you need a very strong arm and good accuracy and it is a very difficult throw. The DB should have a big advantage on this play even in zone coverage. Hopefully the DB AI gets a major upgrade for APF 2K9 because it is terrible now. The problem is that the legend receivers are way too good and the generic DBs are terrible and the CPU calls too much soft zone coverages. The offense has such a huge advantage and and as a consequence there is no balance in the game. A new passing system like the read and lead in NFL FEVER 2004 would also be a much needed improvement. An adaptive CPU defensive AI must be the focus for APF 2K9.

I would strongly disagree with that. They run the drag and the curl way too slow. I wanted a short passing, WCO attack and I have to rely on out routes and quick slants because drags and curls are so slow.

The LAST thing I want them to do is dumb down offense to increase defense.

[AKUMA2000]

Quote: Originally Posted by DA_Kenny

The hot route slant to the outside should be fixed as well. There should be a way to control the how large the zone area can be defended. You know the red circle area? Thats their zone area and that seems to be the only area they are defending. if we get the ability to expand or contract that zone area, it would be great for 2k9. I noticed how some zone plays have larger circle zones for players while others have a small zone. They need to add this Zone modifier feature for 2k9

The zone modifier would be cool, would make gameplay a bit more balanced and the money plays would be drastically reduced.

But i do hope in next years version 2K fixes it that when you assign a defender to an offensive player they follow and cover them (even if they shift from one side to the other etc..)

[dunelly]

I just played accoosticant online.

He ran out routes nonstop until you basically call a coveraged that lead everything else open. Of course he rationalized that it's not a money route and there's way to stop it.

[JonM]

When the AI fails you have to step up and cover the guy yourself.

I myself usually play as a DB anyway so these plays rarely effect me if I read it properly. I actually like when people think they have a money play because they are so easy to read, easy pick.

[TombSong]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

I just played accoosticant online. He ran out routes nonstop until you basically call a coveraged that lead everything else open. Of course he rationalized that it's not a money route and there's way to stop it.

??

If someone is running outs on you then yes you have to call a defense that takes away the outs, and yes you will leave something else open. Every defense has something open.

Once you took away his out routes what did he do ?