The one thing missing from all football games: The Errant Pass, The Rushing Game

[dunelly]

You all seem to have a skewed perception of things.
Rarely are there 60-70 yard throws in the NFL. The couple to Randy Moss lately are good examples.

There's a difference between 30-40 yard passes, and 60-70 yards one. Let's assume an average quarterback can throw 70 yards max. You're telling me a quarterback can hit a WR in his STRIDE, throwing his hardest,every SINGLE time?? yea ok.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

You all seem to have a skewed perception of things. Rarely are there 60-70 yard throws in the NFL. The couple to Randy Moss lately are good examples. There's a difference between 30-40 yard passes, and 60-70 yards one. Let's assume an average quarterback can throw 70 yards max. You're telling me a quarterback can hit a WR in his STRIDE, throwing his hardest,every SINGLE time?? yea ok.

You're example is irrelevant. I could see if you could put up 60 yard throws every time in a game situation with average QB's like it's money, but you obviously can't.

Underthrown/overthrown balls are due to a number of things. DB's jamming and impeding the WR's progress, QB under duress and not getting full extension on the throw, poor WR routes, etc. If you're talking about a HOF QB and a HOF WR in practice mode setting(lol), this will not happen as much and it's that simple. That's why somebody chose the HOF QB and HOF WR. Again, Rice wasn't known for the deep ball....but he could get a step on the defender and Montana and Young could get the ball there. 60+ yards is semantics. Average QB's routinely throw it far and accurate(and this is after attending several pro-days). Whether it's 50 yards or 60 yards is kinda irrelevant in a video game setting.

[TombSong]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

You're example is irrelevant. I could see if you could put up 60 yard throws every time in a game situation with average QB's like it's money, but you obviously can't. Underthrown/overthrown balls are due to a number of things. DB's jamming and impeding the WR's progress, QB under duress and not getting full extension on the throw, poor WR routes, etc. If you're talking about a HOF QB and a HOF WR in practice mode setting(lol), this will not happen as much and it's that simple. That's why somebody chose the HOF QB and HOF WR. Again, Rice wasn't known for the deep ball....but he could get a step on the defender and Montana and Young could get the ball there. 60+ yards is semantics. Average QB's routinely throw it far and accurate(and this is after attending several pro-days). Whether it's 50 yards or 60 yards is kinda irrelevant in a video game setting.

Co-sign.

It aint like throwing the ball 60 yards deep accurately while on the run happens like money in this game. This game is dang near perfect in how it deals with QB accuracy. You can't throw off your back foot accurately and only scramblers can throw with any dgree of accuracy on the run, and only strong armed QB's can get it deep on the run.

I cannot condone wanting a change made in a game purely because someone managed to throw a ball 70 yards deep and incomplete in practice mode.

[dunelly]

60 - 70 yards isn't semantic. In this game, in practice mode, any legend qb can throw it 70 yards and have the WR catch it in stride every single time. By that I mean 100%, not 80, not 75, 100%. You can see this in practice mode with no defense.

You're saying a QB never overthrows a deep ball. Most will over/under by 5 yards even, but never PERFECT. Ever notice how there's never an underthrown or overthrown ball? How there's never a ball that hits the ground without hitting a player first? Ever see a low ball? High ball? Nope.

I'm not going to keep arguing if you're going to keep defending the game with flawed logic. NO QB ever throws 100% on a 60-70 yard pass, period.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

You can see this in practice mode with no defense. You're saying a QB never overthrows a deep ball. Most will over/under by 5 yards even, but never PERFECT. Ever notice how there's never an underthrown or overthrown ball? How there's never a ball that hits the ground without hitting a player first? Ever see a low ball? High ball? Nope.

I'm guessing you're only using specific circumstances to come to your conclusion (Legend QBs and WRs). In games against an actual defense you're not going to complete those passes over and over, so not sure why you're basing your conclusions on throwing passes with no defense present.

I haven't tried your scenario, but I do know if you use a 2nd string QB passes will be all over the place. No, it's not going to reflect real life exactly where you see short hopped passes or whatnot, but there's definitely an accuracy and power hit. That tells me that the passing game isn't inherently flawed, it's a matter of adjusting the ratings that likely exist underneath the attribute system to better differentiate QB abilities.

[TombSong]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

60 - 70 yards isn't semantic. In this game, in practice mode, any legend qb can throw it 70 yards and have the WR catch it in stride every single time. By that I mean 100%, not 80, not 75, 100%. You can see this in practice mode with no defense. You're saying a QB never overthrows a deep ball. Most will over/under by 5 yards even, but never PERFECT. Ever notice how there's never an underthrown or overthrown ball? How there's never a ball that hits the ground without hitting a player first? Ever see a low ball? High ball? Nope. I'm not going to keep arguing if you're going to keep defending the game with flawed logic. NO QB ever throws 100% on a 60-70 yard pass, period.

If a real world QB was on a football field with no defense just chucking balls deep downfield to a WR, I think I and any coach would expect him to complete those dang near 100% of the time. If he didnt he would not be my starting QB, LOL. Come on man, how could he not complete a deep pass under those conditions at a high percentage ?

You think they are suppose to just make the game have the QB's throw errant passes for the sake of throwing errant passes just to satisfy what your view of real world pass completion percentages are ?

The errant pass should be based on YOUR timing and the skills of the qb you are using. I have used Cunningham in practice mode "against a defense" and if I tap the pass button for a lob to early or late or lead the pass too much or not enough it will be over or underthrown. errant passes should not be some random thing or attribute caused event. It should be a result of the users misuse or miscalculation of the QB's abilities and the users personal skill level.

If I have practiced with Joe Montana to the point I know just how much lob I have to put on his deep balls and how hard I have to press the button to make accurate medium/short throws, I should NOT be punished for that by some random events causing him to throw errant passes. If I have through practice and time learned the ends and outs of using Montana as efficiently as his attributes will allow, then its up to me making a mistake or the opponent causing me to make a mistake to throw errant passes, by throwing my timing off or making me make throws when I dont want to.

[catcatch22]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I'm guessing you're only using specific circumstances to come to your conclusion (Legend QBs and WRs). In games against an actual defense you're not going to complete those passes over and over, so not sure why you're basing your conclusions on throwing passes with no defense present. I haven't tried your scenario, but I do know if you use a 2nd string QB passes will be all over the place. No, it's not going to reflect real life exactly where you see short hopped passes or whatnot, but there's definitely an accuracy and power hit. That tells me that the passing game isn't inherently flawed, it's a matter of adjusting the ratings that likely exist underneath the attribute system to better differentiate QB abilities.

It seems to me all the tiered players at a position automatically get a base rating for being a gold, silver or what have you. So if you are a gold you will automatically get a set rating no matter what even if that player was not addept in a certain area.

For example, Cunningham gets a boost in accuracy because he is a silver QB.

Another example would be Sayers having more strength than a strength bronze or generic back simply because of his gold base rating.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by catcatch22

It seems to me all the tiered players at a position automatically get a base rating for being a gold, silver or what have you. So if you are a gold you will automatically get a set rating no matter what even if that player was not addept in a certain area. For example, Cunningham gets a boost in accuracy because he is a silver QB. Another example would be Sayers having more strength than a strength bronze or generic back simply because of his gold base rating.

This is true. I've seen Sayers knock people out as well as Barry. And I just say, "whatever." As per the point about QB's and accuracy. The way I interpret what dunnelly is saying is in one simply sentence. No QB can put the ball exactly where he wants to every single time he passes it. And it should show that even if you are simply doing a passing skeleton. But it does not. The Gold QB's for instance, in a passing skeleton are 100 % on the money every single time as if they have never made bad throws. This is why I'd prefer to have R Stick passing and have a meter. Offense has always been easy as cake in football video games. Very little skill is required. You don't have to learn the limitations of players. You do not have to learn skill positions. You are not forced to catch balls yourself. You are not forced to master anything.

But then on defense, they want to mimic angle tackling or you will pay. You have to defend every pass or your guy just sits there like a moron. There is no sense of gap control. Bottom line for me is this, in head to head games, if this game is about two users playing the game and the users making plays, then let it be that. Don't let either one of us rely on the A.I to make the plays for us on either side of the football. But if not then tune the A.I to help us on both sides then, it's not that no one wants to make plays, it is just an acknowledgment that everyone may not have that hand to eye coordination to do all of that switching. Don't give one side of the ball an advantage through the simple button mechanics.