Faith restored: how I learned to love APF again

[spankdatazz22]

I went to Gamespot to purchase Madden today (used of course).

I hadn't played APF in a few months other than a random quarter or so. After the playoffs and Super Bowl though, I really began itching to play a football game again - specifically NFL football. So I downloaded the Madden 08 demo earlier this week again just to look at it with fresh eyes. It was refreshing playing with known players like Dwight Freeney, Brian Urlacher, etc. Where a lot of things irritated me to no end last time I tried the demo, I found myself not as irritated by some of those same things now. Defensive strafing wasn't as bad as I remembered. The players running anims looked better. I was seeing some nice animations. Some things were still bad or outright horrible - almost everything dealing w/the QBs specifically, the seeming "forced" emotion of the players/celebrations, sidelines, players lacking individuality, defense defending passes unrealistically, etc. But still it was refreshing to see actual NFL teams and players. I read up on impressions just to see how the game had been improved post-patch and didn't find anything overly convincing. But figured I'd pull the trigger on getting the game anyway.

I walked into Gamespot and asked if they had any used copies. They didn't have any. I expected him to ask me if I wanted to reserve the upcoming Madden, like they do every year. But unsolicited, the manager said "Man, if they don't improve Madden I'm never buying it again". Then the two coworkers chimed in with a couple complaints, but nothing over the top. Then he said "2K, Blitz (think he meant Backbreaker though) - I just hope one of them is like that; i'm tired of this [expletive]". Then he brought up the recent EA/NFL deal and sort of voiced more hopelessness. I probably said two lines the whole time while these guys were talking. And I was shocked because usually they push Madden like crack, specifically the manager.

That motivated me to check out APF for some reason. Made a few color changes to a few created teams and started to play. There were still the irritations like lack of defensive pass rush or significant DL/LB presence, lack of NFL teams, some irritations with the player models, etc. - but I had forgotten how great the game played. How the game seems to have a soul, something Madden's missing for some reason. While not perfect, players interact so much better. Defenders look cool in their pre-snap stances (except the LBs and safeties imo). QBs throw beautifully wounded ducks when getting hit. Noticeable differences between receiver route running, DBs head tracking and playing bump and run w/appropriate anims, etc. Just so much that goes underappreciated.

Needless to say my faith has been restored in the game. And I really think if 2K makes the right moves, people may be willing to give them a look. I'm not sure 2K will attempt to make another game, but I would love if they do. And they should make an APF GAME FIRST, psuedo-NFL game second. Or even third. I think the game has a lot of potential if it's given the chance - even without the NFL (given the situation w/Madden) or without NaturalMotion. Also, this isn't a knock against Madden. In some ways Madden's close to being a good game imo - but at the same time it isn't. It seems like it's going to be difficult to get defenders in the game to behave in a decent/semi-realistic manner, to get players to interact more fluidly... I was surprised at how much players just lock up at the LOS (offensive and defensive linemen). It just seems like there's a lot Tiburon needs to address with the game. There's a lot 2K has to do with APF too, but I think APF is much closer to where it needs to be than Madden is at this point.

[loudiamonds1979]

Wow, your exactly right. APF has a soul. That's the difference. I believe the best route would be to give us a fully customizable game but keep the legends. And to pull this off 2k could give us a generic NFL where New York has a number 92 with Michael Straham's abilities. Let us edit the names and whatever else we want. But the key is to make classic generic teams. Like Chicago 85. Use the players that you have under contract and fill in the rest of the roster with generic versions of the players that played on that team. A generic Jim Mcman etc. But I'm not sure if that would be a violation of the NFL's agreement with EA sports.

[TombSong]

As far as next gen consoles, Madden this year is the best one they have made and thats mainly because they put back in the game alot of stuff that was missing from the last gen game. I play it every now and then with my boys because they play it, but its not my first choice for a football game by a long shot.

It is outright SICK how much better the running game, player movement, player interaction, atmosphere, overall game strategy is in AP2K8 than in Madden. The players in AP2K8 have a dimension of "weight" to them when you are controlling them and personality that Madden is missing.

[loudiamonds1979]

Madden does have some advantages over APF besides the NFL liscense.
1. Create a stadium
2. Create a player
3. Player equipment
4. Pre snap audibles defense only in my oponion.
5. Hitstick, only because of the cut tackles
6. Moving hair physics
7. Players skin textures look more realistic to me. 2k is a little too bright.
8. Mini games.

Notice besides hitstick & audibles none of teh above dramatically effect gameplay. Please 2k give us what we want.

[TeeDogg]

I picked up madden and Ncaa as well. and usuualy after spending any substantial amount of time playing those two games, returning to APF really makes it stand out more. its strengths are in the details and gameplay nuances.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by TeeDogg

and usuualy after spending any substantial amount of time playing those two games, returning to APF really makes it stand out more. its strengths are in the details and gameplay nuances.

I think that's what surprised me after being away from the game for so long. I read so many bad things being said about it I had begun to believe it myself. But then after playing Madden then playing APF, you can really appreciate what 2K did. And I wasn't saying it to knock Madden - as I said there were some things I enjoyed while playing it. But really no other game should be considered competition or be able to be compared to it given the distinct advantage it has. If any games can compare to it, then shame on EA/Tiburon for that being so. I was beginning to feel people really didn't care regarding the state of videogame football, or at least felt placated. It was refreshing to see normal fans just as concerned/dissatisfied as I've been. And it's not like Madden is as horrible as some paint it out to be, but it has some significant issues that I'm not sure we'll see resolved because of the direction they appear to be headed in. I still may pick it up at some point, but I think I'd end up being more frustrated than satisfied.

After playing APF again I can see so much potential in the title. 2K definitely made missteps on their part and imo the game was judged overly harshly by some. Hopefully 2K isn't discouraged by the reception the game got the first time around and produces an excellent 2K9

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by loudiamonds1979

Madden does have some advantages over APF besides the NFL liscense. 1. Create a stadium 2. Create a player 3. Player equipment 4. Pre snap audibles defense only in my oponion. 5. Hitstick, only because of the cut tackles 6. Moving hair physics 7. Players skin textures look more realistic to me. 2k is a little too bright. 8. Mini games. Notice besides hitstick & audibles none of teh above dramatically effect gameplay except the hit stick. Please 2k give us what we want.

Notice only one of those has anything to do with game play. If you're looking for realistic simulation style game play APF2K8 is the only choice.

[TeeDogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I think that's what surprised me after being away from the game for so long. I read so many bad things being said about it I had begun to believe it myself. But then after playing Madden then playing APF, you can really appreciate what 2K did. And I wasn't saying it to knock Madden - as I said there were some things I enjoyed while playing it. But really no other game should be considered competition or be able to be compared to it given the distinct advantage it has. If any games can compare to it, then shame on EA/Tiburon for that being so. I was beginning to feel people really didn't care regarding the state of videogame football, or at least felt placated. It was refreshing to see normal fans just as concerned/dissatisfied as I've been. And it's not like Madden is as horrible as some paint it out to be, but it has some significant issues that I'm not sure we'll see resolved because of the direction they appear to be headed in. I still may pick it up at some point, but I think I'd end up being more frustrated than satisfied. After playing APF again I can see so much potential in the title. 2K definitely made missteps on their part and imo the game was judged overly harshly by some. Hopefully 2K isn't discouraged by the reception the game got the first time around and produces an excellent 2K9

ive always felt their biggest miss step was limited level of customability (rosters and gameplay modes) but i think the first version was realy done with limited resources to test the water for this type of product. Like you, i hope they go all out this year now that the foundation for the game is inplace and i hope they start to thumb their nose at the NFL by opening up the level of user customability and accses to the internal code (Finn).

I also agree with Tomb in that Madden and Ncaa are good games in their own right, its just that they are years behind 2k with their gameplay engines. anyone who blew off APF or didnt give it a chance has realy missed out on a gem.