Going to the dark side

[slthree]

Quote: Originally Posted by Djwlfpack

Well folks, looks like I'm going to be picking up Madden '09 for my 360. Don't pelt me with stones just yet. I'm taking advantage of the Gamestop trade-in deal and b/c I have a credit on my Edge card, it'll cost me less than $10 to pick up the game. I haven't played Madden in four years ('04 was the last verison I owned) but for that price (and the fact that I can't find a new copy of NCAA anywhere locally) I figure it's worth another look. Just b/c I'm buying Madden doesn't mean APF will be retired; I still plan on playing that game and think it will be interesting to compare the two once I get some games in with Madden.

I haven't liked a Madden game in many years. I'm no EA *****. They make a lot of games I like. I loved the NCAA baseball game a few years back and have liked most iterations of their college game. I did not get this year's version based on reviews.

I reluctantly bought Madden for PS3 because I had literally played the daylights out of APF. I love APF but really only play it online. Problem is, too many people are so desperate for a win that the "cheese" factor was sky high. So, I wanted a game I could play offline and since Madden has the real players of the teams I follow I thought I'd give it a try.

It took me about 12-15 games to get into it and stop saying to myself: "Hey, thats not how APF does it".

So, I found the slider set that fit me and I have been having a great time with this game. I really, really, like it and I could see myself loving it.

In APF, I can throw an out with a generic QB with relative ease, even against better DB's.

In Madden, an out route is dependent on a strong armed QB. I tested so many QB's its not funny. A weak armed QB, no matter how accurate will have this route jumped.

In previous Madden's, throwing deep was not a big risk. This year, it most certainly is. There is a huge difference between average and elite safeties.

I didn't like the speed og the game initially. It was way to fast for me but I eventually got used to it and while I still think it may be a bit too fast, I do like the pressure I feel to make a read and get rid of it.

In APF, reads became too easy for me and even when facing nasty pass rushers I rarely was forced into a mistake. I could score at will. Last game I played I beat smokedust 48-43. I can't imagine that happening on Madden but then again I've played 400 plus games of APF.

because I have found previous Madden's to be unrealistic I replay anything questionable and any big play and every broken tackle. I normally end up replaying about 30 plays per game, every single game, to see if what happened should have happened. Most of the time, it panned out. Here's an example:

I was using the Jets playing the Pats and Thomas Jones was on a good role. On a Power O play to the right he I ran directly into a blitzing #37, thats right, it was Rodney himself, the modern day Joey Browner. Anyway, Jones broke the tackle and I didn't think he should have because Rodney had me lined up. I was pissed because it looked like a bogus broken tackle that I didn't deserve. When I replayed it I was blown away at what I saw. The FB, Richardson had peeled off his primary block which was a LB and literally reached for Harrison and shoved him ever so slightly, so Rodney attempted the tackle with his right foot a little off the ground because he had been pushed off balance. He still hit Jones on the inside shoulder, turned him only slightly and Jones was gone for a big gain.

I went to the depth chart to see what Richardson's Run Block rating was and it was indeed very high. In fact, he had a "bull dozer" icon which means he excels at run blocking. It was just right and I felt relieved. Most replays have yielded the same positive outcomes of realism.

I'm not ready to say its as good as APF but i will say this: I was certain I would play this game for a short time, perhaps a few days, and then go back to APF. Yet, here I am, roughly 50 offline games later, and I have no desire to play APF. My daughters ask me every day why I'm still playing Madden.

I may eventually stop playing Madden and come back to APF but the more I play Madden the more I like it.

If you want to ask any specific questions, shoot away.

[kcxiv]

Do you see how in APF section here there has been threads called "the little things" Well for Madden, there is NO little things. I didnt see any.

Here is my problems with Madden.

Throwing the ball the tradjectery (spelling) of the ball is HORRIBLE. It just doesnt look close to realistic when throwing lob passes (as i like to say ephus pitch).

Interceptions- Is it just me or does EVERY SINGLE INT seem like its a 2 handed superjump by a linebacker or safety?

Corner passes in the endzone- Non existant becuase when you lob a pass 3 defenders get there waiting for it. The lob pass floats way to much. I tried to do plenty with Tony Gonzalez and it just wasnt there.

When playing a dline hell any defense player trying to shed blocks usuing either power move or finesse move. It just looks bad. Why cant you do specific moves?

Field goal kicking- So easy, the only problems you will have is if you have a weak legged kicker. On KC, Novak has so weak of a leg they dont even let him kick off. My punter is kicking off. Whats that about? Weather does not effect kicking. IF it does its so minimal. There is never a thought that hey this guy has a chance to miss it for 45 yards. Its not going to happen unless your finger slips off the analog stick.

Branching/Breaking tackles- Why does it allow you to do a juke/cut more when a defensive player has you wrapped up?? The darn offensive ball carrier will try to juke and sometimes break out of one? I never seen this in the NFL. I have seen the stiff arm maybe and maybe a spin, but a cut move? come on.

Kick Returns- Why cant you wedge it to the left or right? You can only go down the middle?? 2008? hello!

The thing that pisses me off the most though is the 2handed super jump for interceptions. It irks me so bad when i see that.

Anyways, you will in time see the flaws. I am sure people can add on.

[slthree]

[quote=cherone21;2038647683]In madden the line gets confused by oncoming blitz packages and you get sacked in about .00005 seconds. Just a game killer.

Blitz combinations are supposed to confuse the o-line. One of the major complaints of APF is the blitzing. In truth, Madden handles it better. It does happen very, very fast, but it can be managed. Now, what you may see that will bother some is the animation where the tackle drops back and wide to prevent the speed rush on the edge, only to have the DE slip under him unabated (unless you left a rb to chip block) to the QB. This only happens 1-3 times a game which seems reasonable, even against the better tackles. I actually think that APF diehards like myself would welcome the fact that exotic blitzes work.

There is no better feeling than stepping up into the best looking passing pocket in video game history and delivering a perfectly timed pass to the receiver just past the outstretched arms of the defends.

I agree 100%

Oh in madden this doesn't exist because they improved their ball physics but as soon as you throw the ball there are 4 to 6 defenders sprinting across the field to knock the ball down. GAME KILLER! If a corner is beat they are beat EA!

OK, here is where I agree and disagree. Initially, I felt it was impossible to throw well because of swarming defenders. After fine tuning my slider set and using the dummy slider concept I do not have this problem anymore.

I also found that timing is crucial because of the closing speed of defenders. And after watching a bunch of pre season games you realize just how important timing is. When a man comes open its only for a split second. My passing has steadily improved based on better timing.

That being said, the one issue I do have with Madden is the fly pattern. I actually thought it couldn't be completed until I hit Tory Holt with a beautifully lobbed ball from Bulger. I've tried the streak or fade pattern about 20 times and have only completed it once. The flipside to that is when i play APF and get man coverage I can complete the fade route 13-15 times out of 20, even on a Gold DB. Taking shots downfield is not as prevalent as some may think and it probably works just once or twice.

Most NFL games feature short to intermediate passing. Sure, they may run a man off deep on a bunch of plays but that deep man will rarely get open and even more rarely will a connection be made, especially in the face of a blitz.

The wide receiver cornerback interaction in APF hands down better than Madden. There is noting quite like watching Jerry Rice throw a generic corner on the ground when they are pressing him and running freely down the sideline. Madden you cannot beat the defender unless it is man coverage and you run an IN or an OUT or a POST ROUTE. Then you beat them everytime.

Running game: Let me start by saying Madden's running game is much improved. It feels very rewarding to gain yards. That being said the guards and full backs get very confused on who to block with the pull to the outside. APF blockers realistically pull and send you off in to the second level of the defense putting your secondary on an island. Great feeling when you play all pro. In addition weight does not factor into Madden's running game therefore, on occasion WARRICK DUNN WILL TRUCK WARREN SAPP. This is some thing about the game that really gets me angry. I think Madden would be well served to use the rating system of APF and make sure only certain players have certain abilities.

I love the running game in both Madden and All Pro. What I don't like about All Pro is that a generic o-lineman can hold his own against a legend d-lineman. As far as the weight not being a factor, I'm sure you are correct in saying that because Gideon Prime has a video where he shows AP trucking a very big and fat D-lineman even after he was in the grasp. I laughed at that video. However, in my experience, I don't see a lot of that.

Take 2 backs who both have a high "truck" rating, Steven Jackson of the Rams and Cadillac of the Bucs. I have used both of them a ton. Jackson flat runs people over because he's heavier and stronger but i don't get the same results with Caddy. I'm forced to run counters and rely more on his speed because he is not nearly as effective as Jackson.

I also used Jamal tonight. On a whim I played as the Browns. His weight seemed to matter a lot. He moved the pile forward almost every time. the only time he didn't was when a defender knifed in and hit him before his momentum started rolling.

In short, yes, a light back may once in a while truck a defender when he shouldn't, but I think it happens so infrequently it would not kill the game.

As far as blocking goes, I have seen what you have seen, where the FB or lineman gets confused and isn't quite sure who to block. But, it happens so rarely it doesnt affect my enjoyment of the game. With the Jets and Browns, I run behind the FB and have had a blast doing so because they are blocking machines. i don't mind them missing a block from time to time.

Defense: Impossible due to the fact that quarterback's throw at a completion percentage of about 95% a game. Everytime you blitz the quarterback snaps the ball and throws off his back foot for a completion. Their bodies spin around in EA SPORTS fashion to throw perfect darts. There is no way to use the man defense it just doesn't work unless your opponent is throwing a deep pattern. Offensive and Defensive line play is bad. I am sure that EA knows its bad. You get stuck to your blocker and you cannot penentrate. I will say though that I tweaked the sliders and the GIANTS D Line became very agressive allowing me to drop more men into coverage and use different blitz packages. This tweak mad the game feel farely realistic.

Your right, Robo QB is in the game out of the box. It was the reason I almost quit on the game early on. I'm happy to say I have not seen it in my last 20 games due to the dummy slider concept and my tewaked user sliders. Now, I see errant passes and dead on perfect completion percentages. In fact, I tuned my sliders too good as I held Brady to 53% with 3 picks and 3 sacks while using the Vikings.

And yes, sacks are hard to get, as well they should be. Even a 3rd string QB in the NFL will dump the ball to a back in the face of a blitz to avoid a sack. The Chargers (one of the best D's in the NFL) had 42 sacks last year. That's an avg of 2.6 per game. This puts the issues with sacks in perspective. I, like you, and every other baller would love to rack up 5-6 sacks a game but thats just not realistic.

What we have found is that even though the QB finds an open man its almost always the underneath man which results in a punt. Sliders and more coverage will get you sacks. trust me, they can come in bunches under the right circumstances.

[LingeringRegime]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chitown1211

^ that is my exact expierience. At first its like "This is a very good game" . After about 3 games you realize the offline expierience is ruined.

My experience as well. The gameplay is as exciting as Tom Hammond's commentary. I am really trying to like it, but I real frustrated with the game right now.

[yamabushi]

1 other thing, if you stick with it long enough;

Is there a difference in team play style beyond playbooks?

[slthree]

Quote: Originally Posted by yamabushi

1 other thing, if you stick with it long enough; Is there a difference in team play style beyond playbooks?

In terms of "play style", I say yes, I see a difference, Teams known for running run and teams known for passing pass a lot more than they run.

What I'm on the fence about is the "star" players getting the right amount of love. I played against the Pats and Moss was practically non-existent. He ended up with 1 catch for 9 yards. He was probably thrown to just 3 or 4 times. The flip side is that I double and tripled him all game and Brady found Gafney and Walker and Watson all day long.

So, its hard to say if this was a problem with the CPU AI not utilizing its star enough or if the AI was just playing smart by not throwing into triple coverage.

When I played v the Cards (which I've done 3 or 4 times. I love their home unis) the passes were flying at both Boldin and Fitzgerald. It seemed and they popped Edge when I least expected it.

The Skins use Cooley really well and he flat kills me everytime I play them. I've played against the Skins at least 15 times. When singled up or when he finds a soft spot in the zone Moss (thats Santana) is a beast and Portis, well, forget about it. The Skins are very balanced and play that way.

Don't know if that's answered your question but I lean toward saying that the teams do feel like their NFL counterparts with regard to play style.

[slthree]

Quote: Originally Posted by TRETCHARUSS

My experience as well. The gameplay is as exciting as Tom Hammond's commentary. I am really trying to like it, but I real frustrated with the game right now.

Yeah, commentary is terrible as is the overall atmosphere as is the broken challenge system as is the fact that RB's just run out of bounds after catching a flat pass. I'm not talking about momentum either. They just run out with no pressure. In fairness, this is supposed to be fixed in a patch.

While I hate those things, I really like the gameplay

[boooey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Djwlfpack

Well folks, looks like I'm going to be picking up Madden '09 for my 360. Don't pelt me with stones just yet. I'm taking advantage of the Gamestop trade-in deal and b/c I have a credit on my Edge card, it'll cost me less than $10 to pick up the game. I haven't played Madden in four years ('04 was the last verison I owned) but for that price (and the fact that I can't find a new copy of NCAA anywhere locally) I figure it's worth another look. Just b/c I'm buying Madden doesn't mean APF will be retired; I still plan on playing that game and think it will be interesting to compare the two once I get some games in with Madden.

no pelting here also.. I love NFL2k, but what can we do.. I want to play NFL Football with current teams on my PS3/XBOX360, so we have no choice..
i do know that as long as I have a choice I will always choose 2K sports over EA.. NBA, NHL, MLB