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catcatch22 · 11-10-2008, 01:12 AM

I have always liked editing plays with suttle variations of audibles and motion. However I have now opened up my playbook with some movements that some might consider cheese so before I start using them online I just wanted to ask.

1. Throws to the back. There are not alot of plays where you can get the back to go down field in a normal set that is not 4 wide or something. I like to hot route my back to do go routes out of the back field straight up the field against the AI. I do this because one no one expects the back to go up the filed out of the back field, all the plays have the back go into the flats which is usually useless. So I love pumping him out there and throwing it to him or using him as a push player to open up the zone for one of my receivers. I did it once online and got called a cheeser.

Is this cheese?

2. I have always wanted tree passing patterns like the ones in Joe Montana football 94 on the genesis. What I mean by that is the receiver has several options and dependent on the timing of when you tossed the ball the receiver would break to a route to make the catch. I would love to see this in football games where receivers would stop and sit in a zone to make the catch.

There are stop and comeback patterns in the game but from where the receivers are lined up they never get open unless they are in the middle of the field like a tight end or running back who performs the pattern. So the pattern is useless unless you do it against man coverage, which is what I did for years in the 2k series.

However I used to do a move against the CPU where I would motion my receiver looking for zone coverage, I would then hike it before the receiver ends at his position. I would hike it when my receiver reaches between center and guard then hike it and then my receiver would then sit in the zone with the stop and comeback pattern as he should.

Is this cheese??

3. Double Screens - I am not a fan of the screens in the 2k series. I would like to use wide receiver screens and tight end screens but alas they give you no such option. What I like to do is give myself two options on screen passes. One to the wide out in a slot or one to the tight end and one to the back as well if possible. That way you can't just focus on the back on screens. I sometimes hot route the back to go behind the lineman past the rush like in a real screen pass. However I got called a cheeser for doing this.

Is this cheese?

CreatineKasey · 11-10-2008, 08:37 AM

In my opinion the first and third are not cheese. In fact the third sounds like a good idea! Haha I am going to check that out.

The second one would kind of bother me just because of the DB tracking against man coverage sometimes doesn't follow well at all so snapping a ball before a WR is set then throwing it to him can kind of take advantage of the AI. This move is banned in most leagues and tournaments I've played it. As far as run plays go, snapping before the WR/TE/HB is set is perfectly acceptable, its just the pass plays people have problems with.

RogueHominid · 11-10-2008, 09:14 AM

Number one isn't in my opinion, especially because you don't have legitimate routes for backs out of the backfield available to you on the hot route menu. So many people love to hot route their defenders so all your regular receivers are doubled, and I love taking advantage of this by throwing to a back up the field rather than on a screen or swing on occasion.

Number two sounds weird, if I'm reading you correctly. Snapping the ball while your receiver is in the C-G gap doesn't sound normal. IRL it would be near impossible to actually get through the mess without seriously disrupting the blocking scheme.

Number three is fine, I guess, but screens are so damned difficult to stop consistently even if you know they're coming and are manually trying to get out there and stop the back yourself. Anything that makes that play more effective sounds like a nightmare to me, but it's not like it's "cheese"--it's just another layer of annoyance

. Just my personal opinion on that one. We've played, and if you did it to me I wouldn't neg you for it.

Rusty Barr · 11-10-2008, 09:39 AM

Snapping the ball while anyone is still in motion in this game is total cheese and can be an exploit IMHO.

The other two are fine.

My two cents

catcatch22 · 11-10-2008, 10:07 AM

Thank you, so I guess the second option is not viable I guess. Kind of wastes the comeback/stop patterns for the wide outs when in a zone. If there was a way to get the wide receivers to slat in and stop in the middle of the field and sit in the zone, then that would be perfect. Then you don't have to always throw the ball down the field if you know what I mean.

CreatineKasey · 11-10-2008, 10:32 AM

Comeback/stop patterns DO work out wide. They just need to be on time. Go into practice mode and practice throwing them just before your WR turns to your QB.

catcatch22 · 11-10-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	Comeback/stop patterns DO work out wide. They just need to be on time. Go into practice mode and practice throwing them just before your WR turns to your QB.

Yes in man coverage, I have used the pattern successfully for many years in the 2k series. However in zone coverage out wide there is always a player there negating it. Against the zone you need the receiver to be between the tackles for it to be open for a pass like it is for the tight end and the back when they perform it between the tackles.

RogueHominid · 11-10-2008, 11:40 AM

Not so. You can throw this in zone. You just have to read the LB drop right. They do drift to cover the wide route sometimes, but sometimes their drops aren't wide enough, and sometimes they will drift a little too wide and a little too shallow. I've done this myself, so I know it can work.

Your larger point, though, is a good one: receivers need a little more intelligence in this game so they can read zone coverage and "sit" in the hole. This is something that absolutely needs to be in the next iteration of the game, if there is one.

11-10-2008, 01:12 AM	#1
catcatch22 Or should I OVR: 23 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 3,378	Is this cheese? I have always liked editing plays with suttle variations of audibles and motion. However I have now opened up my playbook with some movements that some might consider cheese so before I start using them online I just wanted to ask. 1. Throws to the back. There are not alot of plays where you can get the back to go down field in a normal set that is not 4 wide or something. I like to hot route my back to do go routes out of the back field straight up the field against the AI. I do this because one no one expects the back to go up the filed out of the back field, all the plays have the back go into the flats which is usually useless. So I love pumping him out there and throwing it to him or using him as a push player to open up the zone for one of my receivers. I did it once online and got called a cheeser. Is this cheese? 2. I have always wanted tree passing patterns like the ones in Joe Montana football 94 on the genesis. What I mean by that is the receiver has several options and dependent on the timing of when you tossed the ball the receiver would break to a route to make the catch. I would love to see this in football games where receivers would stop and sit in a zone to make the catch. There are stop and comeback patterns in the game but from where the receivers are lined up they never get open unless they are in the middle of the field like a tight end or running back who performs the pattern. So the pattern is useless unless you do it against man coverage, which is what I did for years in the 2k series. However I used to do a move against the CPU where I would motion my receiver looking for zone coverage, I would then hike it before the receiver ends at his position. I would hike it when my receiver reaches between center and guard then hike it and then my receiver would then sit in the zone with the stop and comeback pattern as he should. Is this cheese?? 3. Double Screens - I am not a fan of the screens in the 2k series. I would like to use wide receiver screens and tight end screens but alas they give you no such option. What I like to do is give myself two options on screen passes. One to the wide out in a slot or one to the tight end and one to the back as well if possible. That way you can't just focus on the back on screens. I sometimes hot route the back to go behind the lineman past the rush like in a real screen pass. However I got called a cheeser for doing this. Is this cheese?

11-10-2008, 08:37 AM	#2
CreatineKasey MVP OVR: 55 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Blog Entries: 29	Re: Is this cheese? In my opinion the first and third are not cheese. In fact the third sounds like a good idea! Haha I am going to check that out. The second one would kind of bother me just because of the DB tracking against man coverage sometimes doesn't follow well at all so snapping a ball before a WR is set then throwing it to him can kind of take advantage of the AI. This move is banned in most leagues and tournaments I've played it. As far as run plays go, snapping before the WR/TE/HB is set is perfectly acceptable, its just the pass plays people have problems with.

11-10-2008, 09:14 AM	#3
RogueHominid Hall Of Fame OVR: 33 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,722	Re: Is this cheese? Number one isn't in my opinion, especially because you don't have legitimate routes for backs out of the backfield available to you on the hot route menu. So many people love to hot route their defenders so all your regular receivers are doubled, and I love taking advantage of this by throwing to a back up the field rather than on a screen or swing on occasion. Number two sounds weird, if I'm reading you correctly. Snapping the ball while your receiver is in the C-G gap doesn't sound normal. IRL it would be near impossible to actually get through the mess without seriously disrupting the blocking scheme. Number three is fine, I guess, but screens are so damned difficult to stop consistently even if you know they're coming and are manually trying to get out there and stop the back yourself. Anything that makes that play more effective sounds like a nightmare to me, but it's not like it's "cheese"--it's just another layer of annoyance . Just my personal opinion on that one. We've played, and if you did it to me I wouldn't neg you for it.

11-10-2008, 09:39 AM	#4
Rusty Barr Rookie OVR: 8 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Florence, SC	Re: Is this cheese? Snapping the ball while anyone is still in motion in this game is total cheese and can be an exploit IMHO. The other two are fine. My two cents

11-10-2008, 10:07 AM	#5
catcatch22 Or should I OVR: 23 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 3,378	Re: Is this cheese? Thank you, so I guess the second option is not viable I guess. Kind of wastes the comeback/stop patterns for the wide outs when in a zone. If there was a way to get the wide receivers to slat in and stop in the middle of the field and sit in the zone, then that would be perfect. Then you don't have to always throw the ball down the field if you know what I mean.

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11-10-2008, 10:32 AM	#6
CreatineKasey MVP OVR: 55 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Blog Entries: 29	Re: Is this cheese? Comeback/stop patterns DO work out wide. They just need to be on time. Go into practice mode and practice throwing them just before your WR turns to your QB.

11-10-2008, 11:40 AM	#8
RogueHominid Hall Of Fame OVR: 33 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,722	Re: Is this cheese? Not so. You can throw this in zone. You just have to read the LB drop right. They do drift to cover the wide route sometimes, but sometimes their drops aren't wide enough, and sometimes they will drift a little too wide and a little too shallow. I've done this myself, so I know it can work. Your larger point, though, is a good one: receivers need a little more intelligence in this game so they can read zone coverage and "sit" in the hole. This is something that absolutely needs to be in the next iteration of the game, if there is one.