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RaychelSnr · 12-03-2008, 07:12 PM

When it comes to developing games -- like many other long-term projects -- there are set timetables and budgets to work with. Companies typically will analyze projects beforehand and attempt to determine the rates of return on their investments when dealing with multimillion-dollar software creations.

Looking at Take-Two Interactive's All-Pro Football 2K8 title from this capital, budgeting and investing point of view, we can begin to understand the company’s thinking from a business standpoint. After a three-year break, 2K football came out of retirement without an NFL license and decided to go head to head with the football giant and phenomenon known as Madden NFL Football.

Read More - Testing the Water with All-Pro Football 2K8

orthostud23 · 12-03-2008, 08:14 PM

I think this game didnt get very popular for 3 reasons:

1) No franchise mode. Yes alot of folks play online but there are also alot who like to build and watch a franchise grow to get to that top spot.

2) Lack of customization. it would have been GREAT to be able to completely name EVERY player on your team even if they had generic attributes,

orthostud23 · 12-03-2008, 08:15 PM

sorry only 2 reason

Mos1ted · 12-03-2008, 08:44 PM

This franchise/series has a lot of potential in my opinion. I don't think the EA-NFL agreement is going to end anytime soon (meaning the next 5 or so years), but there is still a market of opportunity for 2K.

The concept for All Pro Football was okay. I think what hurt the game concept wise is while some memorable legends were included, a lot of noticeable legends were missing. Now granted, it takes a lot of time and effort (and money) to approach past athletes individually and get their permission to use their likeness in the game.

I think what brought people to the game (those who bought it) was the 2K engine rather than the concept. If 2K would go with a generic branded game I think it would be more successful. I'm not sure how Midway is doing sales wise with their Blitz: The League series, but think about how much creative freedom they have with that title. And with 2K's reputation for great TV - like presentation, think of what they can do if they went with a concept like Midway did.

About a year ago, I suggested they go with the high school football route. Considering how huge high school football is in some pockets of America, it at least deserves a look. I'm not sure how a high school football game will translate into sales, but that's what marketing and research is for. Get out there and talk to your target market. Ask them what they look for in a football game and what will drive them to a particular football game (licenses aside of course).

spit_bubble · 12-03-2008, 08:44 PM

1. They wasted money on paying legends. They could've just paid one for the cover and likely had the same amount of sales, or close to it.

2. They missed an opportunity by not releasing the first APF on the PS2. The PS2 had (has?) a huge user base. Releasing an APF with full customization and one legend for the cover on the PS2 a year earlier than APF 2K8 came out would've sold a lot more, cost a lot less, helped establish the franchise, and keep 2K Football in people's minds.

Imagine a fully customizable, Barry Sanders APF 2K7 for the PS2, that people would very likely still be playing today... All the while waiting for the next gen version, which could've come out Fall 2009 or 2010, and released to a larger base than what 2K8 had.

Okay yeah, they probably still would've lost money, but not as much.

burnshroom · 12-03-2008, 08:45 PM

Ummm I think what is going on with EA now and the lawsuit regarding retired players played a part in this as well.

It was intimated that there could be DLC featuring more retired players in the game down the line, but I think when (I don't recall specifics right now) the one guy had an under the table deal to take less money for their likenesses and names it became a moot point for 2K to continue down this road.

It was not as profitable for them to put out the same game with simply more features and the same players and expect to continue to make a profit. It would be a patch for 2k8 priced at whatever price point they put out.

Just my 2 cents here.

Mos1ted · 12-03-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koshi


	1. They wasted money on paying legends. They could've just paid one for the cover and likely had the same amount of sales, or close to it. 2. They missed an opportunity by not releasing the first APF on the PS2. The PS2 had (has?) a huge user base. Releasing an APF with full customization and one legend for the cover on the PS2 a year earlier than APF 2K8 came out would've sold a lot more, cost a lot less, helped establish the franchise, and keep 2K Football in people's minds. Imagine a fully customizable, Barry Sanders APF 2K7 for the PS2, that people would very likely still be playing today... All the while waiting for the next gen version, which could've come out Fall 2009 or 2010, and released to a larger base than what 2K8 had. Okay yeah, they probably still would've lost money, but not as much.

Going with what he said, I remember playing games growing up such as Joe Montana Football, David Robinson's Supreme Court, Charles Barkley's Shut Up and Jam. Unlicensed games that featured the likeness of whatever player endorsed the game, then fictional players making up the rest.

bkfount · 12-03-2008, 10:02 PM

2k didn't know what they wanted to do with this game.

2k has had a group of rabid supporters that were salivating to buy another 2k football game. The pool of suggestions from these fans had to be Olympic in size. 2k even had some brand value in the genre because of what they had done previously in football and other sports. This game could have been epic.

Instead, they squandered all that by cobbling together a bare bones football game that tip toed around the NFL's exclusive deal with EA. The legends were tacked on to lazily wrap an identity on the game. This was all done much too quickly for a franchise that had no reason to rush onto shelves. Giving it a licensed sport game development cycle with a licensed sport game title of All Pro Football 2k8 was utterly stupid.

12-03-2008, 07:12 PM	#1
RaychelSnr Executive Editor OVR: 57 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 4,846 Blog Entries: 490	Testing the Water with All-Pro Football 2K8 When it comes to developing games -- like many other long-term projects -- there are set timetables and budgets to work with. Companies typically will analyze projects beforehand and attempt to determine the rates of return on their investments when dealing with multimillion-dollar software creations. Looking at Take-Two Interactive's All-Pro Football 2K8 title from this capital, budgeting and investing point of view, we can begin to understand the company’s thinking from a business standpoint. After a three-year break, 2K football came out of retirement without an NFL license and decided to go head to head with the football giant and phenomenon known as Madden NFL Football. Read More - Testing the Water with All-Pro Football 2K8 Platform: Xbox 360 / PS3

12-03-2008, 08:44 PM	#5
spit_bubble MVP OVR: 27 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,292	Re: Testing the Water with All-Pro Football 2K8 1. They wasted money on paying legends. They could've just paid one for the cover and likely had the same amount of sales, or close to it. 2. They missed an opportunity by not releasing the first APF on the PS2. The PS2 had (has?) a huge user base. Releasing an APF with full customization and one legend for the cover on the PS2 a year earlier than APF 2K8 came out would've sold a lot more, cost a lot less, helped establish the franchise, and keep 2K Football in people's minds. Imagine a fully customizable, Barry Sanders APF 2K7 for the PS2, that people would very likely still be playing today... All the while waiting for the next gen version, which could've come out Fall 2009 or 2010, and released to a larger base than what 2K8 had. Okay yeah, they probably still would've lost money, but not as much. __________________ All ties severed...

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
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	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

12-03-2008, 08:14 PM	#2
orthostud23 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pittsfield, MA	I think this game didnt get very popular for 3 reasons: 1) No franchise mode. Yes alot of folks play online but there are also alot who like to build and watch a franchise grow to get to that top spot. 2) Lack of customization. it would have been GREAT to be able to completely name EVERY player on your team even if they had generic attributes,

12-03-2008, 08:15 PM	#3
orthostud23 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pittsfield, MA	sorry only 2 reason

12-03-2008, 08:44 PM	#4
Mos1ted MVP OVR: 21 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Blog Entries: 6	This franchise/series has a lot of potential in my opinion. I don't think the EA-NFL agreement is going to end anytime soon (meaning the next 5 or so years), but there is still a market of opportunity for 2K. The concept for All Pro Football was okay. I think what hurt the game concept wise is while some memorable legends were included, a lot of noticeable legends were missing. Now granted, it takes a lot of time and effort (and money) to approach past athletes individually and get their permission to use their likeness in the game. I think what brought people to the game (those who bought it) was the 2K engine rather than the concept. If 2K would go with a generic branded game I think it would be more successful. I'm not sure how Midway is doing sales wise with their Blitz: The League series, but think about how much creative freedom they have with that title. And with 2K's reputation for great TV - like presentation, think of what they can do if they went with a concept like Midway did. About a year ago, I suggested they go with the high school football route. Considering how huge high school football is in some pockets of America, it at least deserves a look. I'm not sure how a high school football game will translate into sales, but that's what marketing and research is for. Get out there and talk to your target market. Ask them what they look for in a football game and what will drive them to a particular football game (licenses aside of course).

12-03-2008, 08:45 PM	#6
burnshroom Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Oct 2005	Ummm I think what is going on with EA now and the lawsuit regarding retired players played a part in this as well. It was intimated that there could be DLC featuring more retired players in the game down the line, but I think when (I don't recall specifics right now) the one guy had an under the table deal to take less money for their likenesses and names it became a moot point for 2K to continue down this road. It was not as profitable for them to put out the same game with simply more features and the same players and expect to continue to make a profit. It would be a patch for 2k8 priced at whatever price point they put out. Just my 2 cents here.

12-03-2008, 10:02 PM	#8
bkfount All Star OVR: 21 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: greensboro, NC	2k didn't know what they wanted to do with this game. 2k has had a group of rabid supporters that were salivating to buy another 2k football game. The pool of suggestions from these fans had to be Olympic in size. 2k even had some brand value in the genre because of what they had done previously in football and other sports. This game could have been epic. Instead, they squandered all that by cobbling together a bare bones football game that tip toed around the NFL's exclusive deal with EA. The legends were tacked on to lazily wrap an identity on the game. This was all done much too quickly for a franchise that had no reason to rush onto shelves. Giving it a licensed sport game development cycle with a licensed sport game title of All Pro Football 2k8 was utterly stupid.