I will use the hot corner route if...

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

I use to think like this but now I take what the defense is giving me.

Lol. Grunt, you know I have an immense amount of respect for your football knowledge and gaming ability, but this is bogus logic.

The defense will "give" you this route if you're in any zone look. We all know that the Cover 2 (soft or hard) won't recognize the route. I just labbed the 50 Deep Outs (with a hot-route corner) from shotgun against Cover 3 and Cover 4 looks, and it's plain as day that the CB to the side you're hot-routing does not recognize the receiver, even though there's no other threat to his zone to occupy his attention.

To specify futher, if I do it on the right, the slot receiver to that side is running a post--that's the FS's read. The ONLY threat in the CB's zone is the corner-running receiver, and he refuses to play the man. If I do it on the other side, the slot guy is running a curl. Again, clearly the responsibility of the dropping backer or FS. The CB still refuses to recognize his man.

Now, you can deal with this route (I think), if you're in man coverage, but there are some questions to answer. It seems rather unscrupulous to me to call a hot route that you know no zone will recognize, especially given how easy it is to tell if you have man or zone on the corners.

Perhaps that's just me, but I really don't think that the logic of real football holds here. It's not really that the defense is "giving" you a certain play, it's that it's incapable of taking it away even when it should. Let's take a Cover 2 Soft, for example. The WR makes that corner cut after just a couple of yards--clearly in front of the DB. Accounting for that has to be the DB's first responsibility at that depth, and it's clearly nowhere on his actual priority list in the game. Granted, in a 50 pattern, he should pass to the S, but not at the depth we're talking about here.

So what I'm hearing is "I'll do this if I can," which equates to "I'll do this if you're playing zone." There's no play in football you can run that will beat zone coverage simpliciter; there are plays that work versus a Cover 1, 2, 3, 4, 13; but none that work versus the umbrella category "zone."

Just so nobody gets it twisted, I don't care if you run all hot-route corners in your lobby or league games with me. I'm gonna do my thing and let you do yours with no complaints. In the spirit of intellectual integrity, though, I do feel compelled to state my case for why this logic isn't really logic. Personally, I won't run this route at all, even when I'm looking for a fade in the end zone. That's what the 90 Lob Fade is for.

But again, I'm just stating how I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm the happiest guy in these forums to be corrected, so help me out!

[The Sim God]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

I can't bring myself to use them. I understand what s38s is saying, but I just won't do it. It just opens me up to criticism that I don't want. I just use mid range corner routes from designed plays instead.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

Lol. Grunt, you know I have an immense amount of respect for your football knowledge and gaming ability, but this is bogus logic. The defense will "give" you this route if you're in any zone look. We all know that the Cover 2 (soft or hard) won't recognize the route. I just labbed the 50 Deep Outs (with a hot-route corner) from shotgun against Cover 3 and Cover 4 looks, and it's plain as day that the CB to the side you're hot-routing does not recognize the receiver, even though there's no other threat to his zone to occupy his attention. To specify futher, if I do it on the right, the slot receiver to that side is running a post--that's the FS's read. The ONLY threat in the CB's zone is the corner-running receiver, and he refuses to play the man. If I do it on the other side, the slot guy is running a curl. Again, clearly the responsibility of the dropping backer or FS. The CB still refuses to recognize his man. Now, you can deal with this route (I think), if you're in man coverage, but there are some questions to answer. It seems rather unscrupulous to me to call a hot route that you know no zone will recognize, especially given how easy it is to tell if you have man or zone on the corners. Perhaps that's just me, but I really don't think that the logic of real football holds here. It's not really that the defense is "giving" you a certain play, it's that it's incapable of taking it away even when it should. Let's take a Cover 2 Soft, for example. The WR makes that corner cut after just a couple of yards--clearly in front of the DB. Accounting for that has to be the DB's first responsibility at that depth, and it's clearly nowhere on his actual priority list in the game. Granted, in a 50 pattern, he should pass to the S, but not at the depth we're talking about here. So what I'm hearing is "I'll do this if I can," which equates to "I'll do this if you're playing zone." There's no play in football you can run that will beat zone coverage simpliciter; there are plays that work versus a Cover 1, 2, 3, 4, 13; but none that work versus the umbrella category "zone." Just so nobody gets it twisted, I don't care if you run all hot-route corners in your lobby or league games with me. I'm gonna do my thing and let you do yours with no complaints. In the spirit of intellectual integrity, though, I do feel compelled to state my case for why this logic isn't really logic. Personally, I won't run this route at all, even when I'm looking for a fade in the end zone. That's what the 90 Lob Fade is for. But again, I'm just stating how I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm the happiest guy in these forums to be corrected, so help me out!

the hot corner route is cheese
using it will make you a cheeser

trust me, you dont wanna be BLACKLISTED

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

Lol. Grunt, you know I have an immense amount of respect for your football knowledge and gaming ability, but this is bogus logic. The defense will "give" you this route if you're in any zone look. We all know that the Cover 2 (soft or hard) won't recognize the route. I just labbed the 50 Deep Outs (with a hot-route corner) from shotgun against Cover 3 and Cover 4 looks, and it's plain as day that the CB to the side you're hot-routing does not recognize the receiver, even though there's no other threat to his zone to occupy his attention. To specify futher, if I do it on the right, the slot receiver to that side is running a post--that's the FS's read. The ONLY threat in the CB's zone is the corner-running receiver, and he refuses to play the man. If I do it on the other side, the slot guy is running a curl. Again, clearly the responsibility of the dropping backer or FS. The CB still refuses to recognize his man. Now, you can deal with this route (I think), if you're in man coverage, but there are some questions to answer. It seems rather unscrupulous to me to call a hot route that you know no zone will recognize, especially given how easy it is to tell if you have man or zone on the corners. Perhaps that's just me, but I really don't think that the logic of real football holds here. It's not really that the defense is "giving" you a certain play, it's that it's incapable of taking it away even when it should. Let's take a Cover 2 Soft, for example. The WR makes that corner cut after just a couple of yards--clearly in front of the DB. Accounting for that has to be the DB's first responsibility at that depth, and it's clearly nowhere on his actual priority list in the game. Granted, in a 50 pattern, he should pass to the S, but not at the depth we're talking about here. So what I'm hearing is "I'll do this if I can," which equates to "I'll do this if you're playing zone." There's no play in football you can run that will beat zone coverage simpliciter; there are plays that work versus a Cover 1, 2, 3, 4, 13; but none that work versus the umbrella category "zone." Just so nobody gets it twisted, I don't care if you run all hot-route corners in your lobby or league games with me. I'm gonna do my thing and let you do yours with no complaints. In the spirit of intellectual integrity, though, I do feel compelled to state my case for why this logic isn't really logic. Personally, I won't run this route at all, even when I'm looking for a fade in the end zone. That's what the 90 Lob Fade is for. But again, I'm just stating how I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm the happiest guy in these forums to be corrected, so help me out!

Based on your logic against Cover 2 Soft/Hard where am I supposed to throw the ball?

So what I'm understanding is vs a Cover 2 Deep Corner and Deep Post are my only options???? I'm just trying to understand what some deem as acceptable vs this type of coverage. There seems to be a different (several) interpretation of whats acceptable vs this Zone type (fyi I'm not including Cove3/4 looks).

[Pappy Knuckles]

I don't use it.

Lmao @ the return of the Sim God.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Sim God

the hot corner route is cheese using it will make you a cheeser trust me, you dont wanna be BLACKLISTED

Out of curiosity "sim guy" who's "100% sim all the time" i assume your FB% is also 100% as well...I'm just curious, or will you say the FB system is flawed? I'm @ 91% I would say thats high enough not to be considered a cheeser, even taking negatives from people who can't even give me a reason.

[DCMC]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Sim God

the hot corner route is cheese using it will make you a cheeser

C/S

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Sim God

the hot corner route is cheese using it will make you a cheeser trust me, you dont wanna be BLACKLISTED

I can stop the hot corner in a zone scheme with generic corners. grunt 007.

Peace

PS

Played over 300 games online with a 94% positive feedback.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by s38s38s

Out of curiosity "sim guy" who's "100% sim all the time" i assume your FB% is also 100% as well...I'm just curious, or will you say the FB system is flawed? I'm @ 91% I would say thats high enough not to be considered a cheeser, even taking negatives from people who can't even give me a reason.

My motto is to play your game. Too many guys play one defense the whole game and then complain when you find weaknesses in said defense.