How to Break Specific Offenses/Plays

[umd]

So the argument has come up in numerous other threads that the HB ISO is cheese. There really hasn't been any evidence presented as to why exactly that is, but I figure why not break that play down from a defensive standpoint:

What defensive formations work best against an ISO?

What d-line calls, LB and secondary schemes can stop it repeatedly? Blitzes?

What legend personnel can make it a null play in the playbook w/ the right calls?

(Mkoz if you're out there break down how you did it against Thomas Jones w/ your Bears in RTTSB and Hunter how you do it in every game you own me in on defense)

[The15thunter]

i never thought i'd be giving away my "secrets", but if it'll make the game and community stronger, why not?

my main online team is the bulls:

de - elvin bethea, dexter manley
olb - derrick thomas, greg lloyd
fs - rod woodson
ss - eugune robinson
everything else generic and set to coverage and i believe my linemen are run stoppers since manley, bethea and derrick can handle any quarterback harrassment i need.

basically, when i call my defenses, i look at where along the hashmarks the offense is and what type of players they're using. basically, if you're on the right hashmark and you have a speedy back, you're going to go left because there's more space out there and he can use his speed and agility better in space. that being said, if a guy has proven to follow my assumption of going to the side with the most space, i gap or razor my line that way, usually with a 4-3 man or basic zone look. then, when i come out and see where the tight end and the wideouts are, if it's a zone, i can shade and use different shells to adjust in case it's a pass.

some people understand that and use counters, and that causes me to adapt my strategy by playing them straight up or mixing it up.

also, if i'm in the middle of the field or i feel as though they've given up on the run, which teams usually do, then i call defensive line pinch. this usually allows me to isolate bethea on their left tackle, who is almost always generic. if they're passing, bethea's about to be a problem for them. the two tackles usually are able to occupy the three interior blockers, and manley usually is able to push his man back or beat him.

thus, with the pinch in my 4-3 man set up, three blockers are taking up two interior tackles, the two offensive tackles are on manley. now, greg lloyd has already sniffed out that it's a run and is heading into the gap. if you have a fullback, he's going to get to lloyd, but lloyd usually can cause the fullback to take a bad angle and stifle the play long enough for thomas to come in from the strong side, the other backer to come from the weak, or manley or one of the tackles to get there.

so, instead of the usual 6-8 yard gain from the iso, i give up 1-3 routinely, which the gold running backs giving me the most trouble for obvious reasons.

but yeah, i guess my secret to success is routinely pinching (which typically effects the hole you need to get to since iso's run straight up the middle, where my tackles and backers now are) or gapping towards the hole you need to get to, and forcing a non-gold into making a play he usually can't make.

[RogueHominid]

There are so many ways to deal with the iso. 15th offers some great stuff.

If you have a good ROLB, that player can often handle the iso because he'll be running free. So if you go base, pinch, or whatever with the line and use your MLB to hammer the FB in the hole, the RB will have to stall and redirect, which plays right into the hands of a run eater like Lloyd or a pursuit guy like DT.

Another way to do it is to call a pinch, and shift the LBs to either side. You can then fill with either the MLB or the OLB in the G-T gap and leave the other backer free to scrape and fill.

The shift also works nicely out of the 34. Say, for example, you have a good NT, and a slant called toward the run side (or a pinch). You can then shift left if the run is to the right, and blocking schemes won't usually account for the WILB. If he's a good run player, he often fills the hole and stops the back early.

I'm still amazed that people call the iso cheezy. I've never had a huge problem with it. Sure, I've been burned a few times, and good backs and lines have run up the gut on me, but imo it's totally stoppable with proper personnel and calls. And I don't think you have to over-sell to stop it, which is usually my barometer for exploit plays. I you have to change your whole defense and alter defenses that actually should address a play, then we've got a discussion going, but you can stop the iso with a base line call and decent manual play by the LB corps.

I'm all for putting this info out, and will contribute as many of my own secrets as possible--anything that encourages diversification in playcalling and team selection is a good thing imo.

[RogueHominid]

I have a question about dealing with singleback twin TE right formations.

I like to play a mix of man and zone, and the defensive alignments in man vs. this formation are all screwed up. The OLB and MLB line up over the TEs (obviously), and the other lines up between the DE and DT, even though he is responsible for the HB.

It makes runs, swings, screens, and hot slants away from the LB very easy to do, and I often don't have time to reposition my LB before the ball is snapped.

What do you all do in situations like this? Refuse to run man, make manual player adjustments?

[mKoz26]

Quote: Originally Posted by umd

So the argument has come up in numerous other threads that the HB ISO is cheese. There really hasn't been any evidence presented as to why exactly that is, but I figure why not break that play down from a defensive standpoint: What defensive formations work best against an ISO? What d-line calls, LB and secondary schemes can stop it repeatedly? Blitzes? What legend personnel can make it a null play in the playbook w/ the right calls? (Mkoz if you're out there break down how you did it against Thomas Jones w/ your Bears in RTTSB and Hunter how you do it in every game you own me in on defense)

I'm no defensive genius, but I basically follow the rule of "force it back inside" when facing a strong running team. I could do this because I had two gold linebackers who destroyed anyone in their way, so as long as I could get the play moving towards them I had it locked up. I expected outside runs and tried to keep Jones (when I played umd) in check. Just keeping it inside made big plays impossible, and a good defense can get a stop eventually on a drive if there are no big plays. So I would just run a fan on the line and play zone coverage to contain Favre. Pretty vanilla, but my personnel do everything for me. Now if I could figure out that offense...

[mKoz26]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

I have a question about dealing with singleback twin TE right formations. I like to play a mix of man and zone, and the defensive alignments in man vs. this formation are all screwed up. The OLB and MLB line up over the TEs (obviously), and the other lines up between the DE and DT, even though he is responsible for the HB. It makes runs, swings, screens, and hot slants away from the LB very easy to do, and I often don't have time to reposition my LB before the ball is snapped. What do you all do in situations like this? Refuse to run man, make manual player adjustments?

If he tries to run the slant away from the Backer there are a couple things you could do. If you have good corners and he is continously throwing underneath, pull a safety (on cover 2 man) into the box and sit right where the slant leads the RB. If you have an all out crappy defense, it is fun to bait the opposition into an easy turnover. If it seems like he is getting too comfortable throwing to that RB on the same route, start manually controlling the DE over there (don't abuse delay glitch) and blitzing. Then he'll assume that you want to pass rush and if he tries it again just sneak in there for a pick and start tapping A. But that is only if you're in a shootout kind of game. Now that I think about it, it is probably a once in a lifetime moment, but it worked for me. This won't work against anybody with an IQ level above 75 either. Whatever.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Quote: Originally Posted by The15thunter

i never thought i'd be giving away my "secrets", but if it'll make the game and community stronger, why not? my main online team is the bulls: de - elvin bethea, dexter manley olb - derrick thomas, greg lloyd fs - rod woodson ss - eugune robinson everything else generic and set to coverage and i believe my linemen are run stoppers since manley, bethea and derrick can handle any quarterback harrassment i need. basically, when i call my defenses, i look at where along the hashmarks the offense is and what type of players they're using. basically, if you're on the right hashmark and you have a speedy back, you're going to go left because there's more space out there and he can use his speed and agility better in space. that being said, if a guy has proven to follow my assumption of going to the side with the most space, i gap or razor my line that way, usually with a 4-3 man or basic zone look. then, when i come out and see where the tight end and the wideouts are, if it's a zone, i can shade and use different shells to adjust in case it's a pass. some people understand that and use counters, and that causes me to adapt my strategy by playing them straight up or mixing it up. also, if i'm in the middle of the field or i feel as though they've given up on the run, which teams usually do, then i call defensive line pinch. this usually allows me to isolate bethea on their left tackle, who is almost always generic. if they're passing, bethea's about to be a problem for them. the two tackles usually are able to occupy the three interior blockers, and manley usually is able to push his man back or beat him. thus, with the pinch in my 4-3 man set up, three blockers are taking up two interior tackles, the two offensive tackles are on manley. now, greg lloyd has already sniffed out that it's a run and is heading into the gap. if you have a fullback, he's going to get to lloyd, but lloyd usually can cause the fullback to take a bad angle and stifle the play long enough for thomas to come in from the strong side, the other backer to come from the weak, or manley or one of the tackles to get there. so, instead of the usual 6-8 yard gain from the iso, i give up 1-3 routinely, which the gold running backs giving me the most trouble for obvious reasons. but yeah, i guess my secret to success is routinely pinching (which typically effects the hole you need to get to since iso's run straight up the middle, where my tackles and backers now are) or gapping towards the hole you need to get to, and forcing a non-gold into making a play he usually can't make.

aha...Thanks for the scouting report I'm gonna own you next time!!!lol

[sportyguyfl31]

I like to send a blitzer in the direction I am Gap stunting, another blitzer back side (just in case), and a a guy assigned to the back. This works fairly well.

I have a guy tracking the back, I have a blitzer crashing the suspected running lane, another blitzer playing backside, and I can mop up manually with the free LB or a Safety.

I have my DL set to pass rush, since this seems to be the only setting where they consistantly attack the LOS and actually get penetartion: I want his offensive line being pushed backwards.

Plus, almost always have high level, run plugging DT: Art Donovan, Bob Lilly, Jerome Brown...nothing worse then a Dan Saliamua. I'm a firm believer in that.