Backbreaker Ratings System

[LeonM]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

And my question - as always, with any system like this: Will players without "attributes" have varying skills in those areas? For example, if a guy is a "Copper" with the speed attribute - what are his ratings in the other areas? Say he's a WR - could he have a higher route running ability than a "Silver" that has Speed, Strength, Elusiveness, for example, but no Route Runner attribute? Likewise, 3 WR all have Speed attribute - will they all then run the exact same speed with the exact same acceleration? To me, the problem with Madden's 1-100 has less to do with it being 1-100 than the fact the high and lower ends of players aren't drastic. For example, 50 RTE and 90 RTE don't show major difference. That problem can plague any game whether we see the "Route Running" as 1-100 or not. Madden's system should be one of the best ways to make players individual given the sheer number of ratings it has - but they don't take advantage of it with the ratings (some many players end up rated the same) or the engine (differences that are there don't show up very well at all). Backbreaker would do well to avoid those pitfalls whether they imitate APF, Madden, Tecmo Bowl's, or their own ratings system.

Very good questions. That I am going to have a hard time giving you an answer to. I am thinking this through as I respond to your good post. It's really not a perfect system. The proposed "blend" rating system will probably work best if it's in Backbreaker. It's supposed to be a combination of all ratings systems with a twist. See page one of this thread.

In my tentatively proposed rating system. The categories would be in relation to a players specific position.

I suppose that you could set up a ratings system where each individual atribute can be built up from say copper to platinum.

Like for instance.

Speed Ability
Copper-4.7 in the 40
Bronze-4.5 in the 40
Silver-4.4 in the 40
Gold-4.3 in the 40
Platinum players run a 4.2

Instead of doing actual combine numbers. You could in fact do a numbered ratings system. Like Platinum is 5 star speed, Gold is 4 star speed, Silver is 3 star speed etc

So let's say Your WR Steve Smith has
Speed-4 stars(Gold level)
Agility-5 stars(Platinum level)
Acceleration-4 stars(Gold level)
Hands-4 stars(Gold level)
Route Running-3 stars(Silver level)
Tougness-2 stars(Bronze level)
Leadership-2 stars(Bronze level)

Steve Smith Overall Rating 4 stars (Smith is a gold level WR.)

You have about 7 to 10 real tangible player skill traits that relate to the actual position the player plays. I mean who cares what Steve Smith's kicking power rating is.

In a franchise mode. Through on field achievements. You should be able to build up a player's rating in each category. Like if you have a WR with copper hands. If he catches alot of passes. He can move up to Bronze or Silver or better through progression.

[booker21]

Front Page football had 0 to 99 rating and it worked really good.
Basically Speed, Acc, catching, endurence, strenght and injury rating were very visible on the field.

I don`t think the problem is with the rating system, the problem is that the engine (example madden) don`t work good.

This is why is aid, i prefered to have 5 or 6 single ratings that WORKS and shows on the field. Than have 50 as madden has (Route running? Run blocking foot work????) and not being able to distinguish from any of those on the field.

Keep it basic and make them shown on the field.

[booker21]

btw, another thing about system rating and them being shown on the field is that the game need to have a really good AI.

i`ll give you an example.. if you have a CB being 80 speed and a WR being 94, every streak should be a complete since 94>80.

So on this case, usually a team would use zones, or a S would help the CB.. or the CB would give 10 or so Yds of space from scrimmage.

[hatisback]

Quote: Originally Posted by booker21

btw, another thing about system rating and them being shown on the field is that the game need to have a really good AI. i`ll give you an example.. if you have a CB being 80 speed and a WR being 94, every streak should be a complete since 94>80. So on this case, usually a team would use zones, or a S would help the CB.. or the CB would give 10 or so Yds of space from scrimmage.

You are correct, unless the corner is good at jamming and can slow down the receiver on the streak.

[Hova57]

i think what will happen will be around consitency issue, bronze players will miss tackles more, or drop passes or miss blocks. silver will up grade from that. gold is the only one that bothers me in this they will be the creme of the crop. i rather have my players ratings increase or progress instead of buying them.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by LeonM

In my tentatively proposed rating system. The categories would be in relation to a players specific position. I suppose that you could set up a ratings system where each individual atribute can be built up from say copper to platinum. Like for instance. Speed Ability Copper-4.7 in the 40 Bronze-4.5 in the 40 Silver-4.4 in the 40 Gold-4.3 in the 40 Platinum players run a 4.2

Now, this would make more sense to me. Having each skill graded on the scale would indeed create more individuality than in the original system you mentioned.

Quote: Originally Posted by LeonM

Instead of doing actual combine numbers. You could in fact do a numbered ratings system. Like Platinum is 5 star speed, Gold is 4 star speed, Silver is 3 star speed etc So let's say Your WR Steve Smith has Speed-4 stars(Gold level) Agility-5 stars(Platinum level) Acceleration-4 stars(Gold level) Hands-4 stars(Gold level) Route Running-3 stars(Silver level) Tougness-2 stars(Bronze level) Leadership-2 stars(Bronze level) Steve Smith Overall Rating 4 stars (Smith is a gold level WR.) You have about 7 to 10 real tangible player skill traits that relate to the actual position the player plays. I mean who cares what Steve Smith's kicking power rating is.

Again, makes much more sense. I could work with 7 major skills for each position - you're right, who cares how well Steve Smith could kick. Plus, if you turn him into a kicker, it could always show his 0-star kicking abilities instead of his WR abilities - so they are still there, just shown based on where he is on the depth chart/what his primary position is.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by booker21

Front Page football had 0 to 99 rating and it worked really good. Basically Speed, Acc, catching, endurence, strenght and injury rating were very visible on the field. I don`t think the problem is with the rating system, the problem is that the engine (example madden) don`t work good. This is why is aid, i prefered to have 5 or 6 single ratings that WORKS and shows on the field. Than have 50 as madden has (Route running? Run blocking foot work????) and not being able to distinguish from any of those on the field. Keep it basic and make them shown on the field.

What's funny is that FBPro actually has Run Block Footwork. It's AC + ST (OL).

Run Block Strength would be AC + ST (OL)

Pass Block Footwork = AG + AC (OL)
PBS = AG + ST (OL)

Route Running was AG + AC (WR/TE/RB/QB)

AWR = IN + DI (all positions)

Pass Accuracy is IN + DI, with ST meaning more the deeper the pass. (QB)
Kick Accuracy is DI + IN, with ST meaning more on longer kicks (K/P)

Like you said, rating actual basic physical and mental skills (which was the Front Page Sports way, even with their baseball games) then combining them in intelligent ways (and some of the ratings were "relative" where position matter to how much of the rating was applied while some were "absolute")

People talk about how it's sad 2K5/2K8 still get talked about - how about digging up the old Dynamix/Football Pro system from the 90s!

Geez, now you're making me want to dig out my FB Pro '96 CD and play!

[LeonM]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Now, this would make more sense to me. Having each skill graded on the scale would indeed create more individuality than in the original system you mentioned. Again, makes much more sense. I could work with 7 major skills for each position - you're right, who cares how well Steve Smith could kick. Plus, if you turn him into a kicker, it could always show his 0-star kicking abilities instead of his WR abilities - so they are still there, just shown based on where he is on the depth chart/what his primary position is.

Glad you liked my player ratings proposal. I think that something along those lines works better than the 1-100 rating system.

The cherry on top would be to give specific players a unique move trait. Like spin move, juke, shoulder charge, swim move etc

It gives more individuality to certain players. You can obtain the special move atribute by executing the move with success during games.

So like for instance, You have Steve Smith as a gold level WR with his signature trait being a spin move.

I like the idea of players progressing through franchise mode. It's all through on field acheivements. If your offensive player breaks alot of long plays. He gains the breakaway threat atribute or if your team is run heavy and you are dominant in that area. The progression is reflected through your o-line, te and fb's run blocking skills.

The blend system is best because you can use a numbered ratings scale and at the same time, have specific atributes that relate to the position your player plays. You won't have ratings that don't mean anything. There will be distinct differences for each player. Everything is simplified and streamlined for the type of player you have or wish to develop that player into.