Total customization and the Rating System

[gr18]

This gives me a little more hope regarding player size anyway.

[ABR173rd]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gort77

Great write up. I agree with you about the customization, while i know everyone wants complete control over absolutely everything you know people would be making completely gold teams for online play. Another thing that occurred to me was, that since they have already said you can buy free agents with points you earn through the games you play, if the restriction to the number of gold players carries over to the franchise modes it will serve as a 'salary cap' of sorts.

None of this makes sense as far as creating an all gold team and then playing other people online??? In order to play someone else online you would have to have matching rosters loaded,so there would probably be a default roster for playing online.....

I believe the editing is wanted so people can create their favorite NFL team or the whole NFL for offline and Online Franchise play,which would be a nice addition for this game and would give it a leg up on MADDEN.User created rosters was a huge benefit of buying Madden for the PC because you had guys who were really good at creating real NFL rosters as well as draft classes it also gave the game itself more longevity...So by not allowing the game to be fully editable the game creators are limiting the games true capability's.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

According to the preview we will not be able to edit a players size, weight or skill ratings. Having the ability to do this tho, would actually break the game. Online madden gamers have always had to deal with having to face the top 5 or so teams in the game 90% of the time. What would happen if they allowed gamers to make a team with max height, weight and max ratings on every player? Online would be a cheesefest. Even offline, if you can just edit your team to all golds, then why play franchise and try to build a team up at all?

1) Every football game up to this point has allowed for detailed editing of player performance characteristics so the player can fine-tune a team as he sees fit. That Backbreaker doesn't allow detailed customization of player ratings puts behind other football games in this regard and is a significant notch in the "total customization" aspect. Instead of being able to fine-tune my players' skills how I want to, I am forced to rely on whatever this game's system is for determining how good my players are.

2) Considerations could have and should have been made for online play. The easiest would be a way to look at a potential opponent's roster before the game. If an online ranking system is involved, limit the total skill of the team in some manner, or force players to lay their custom artwork on top of a pre-existing team (they already force default team art in matches between non-friends, why not just take it one step further?). To say the game would become a cheesefest online simply wouldn't ring true in this regard if the appropriate design decisions were made.

One of the two main reasons I was considering this game was the customization aspect (the other being obviously the new technology). These developers have seemingly gone out of their way to unnecessarily limit the player's ability to customize their players and team in key areas (be it players' names with the invalid names database, player appearances with the lack of editable height/weight/build, or player ratings as aforementioned).

[JayBee74]

The Backbreaker team needs to address some of these customization concerns although I don't fully trust the Gameinformer reviewer.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

1) Every football game up to this point has allowed for detailed editing of player performance characteristics so the player can fine-tune a team as he sees fit. That Backbreaker doesn't allow detailed customization of player ratings puts behind other football games in this regard and is a significant notch in the "total customization" aspect. Instead of being able to fine-tune my players' skills how I want to, I am forced to rely on whatever this game's system is for determining how good my players are. 2) Considerations could have and should have been made for online play. The easiest would be a way to look at a potential opponent's roster before the game. If an online ranking system is involved, limit the total skill of the team in some manner, or force players to lay their custom artwork on top of a pre-existing team (they already force default team art in matches between non-friends, why not just take it one step further?). To say the game would become a cheesefest online simply wouldn't ring true in this regard if the appropriate design decisions were made. One of the two main reasons I was considering this game was the customization aspect (the other being obviously the new technology). These developers have seemingly gone out of their way to unnecessarily limit the player's ability to customize their players and team in key areas (be it players' names with the invalid names database, player appearances with the lack of editable height/weight/build, or player ratings as aforementioned).

This bold part is not true at all. APF only allowed you 2 golds 3 silvers and 6 bronze players you could edit. You then got to choose the strength of your team like coverge dbs vs run stopping dbs. You did not get to fully edit every player on the team. The one game I know that did this was Tecmo Kickoff for DS and from what I read, the complete customization in that game did turn it into a cheesefest of sorts.

As far as the developers going out of the way to limit. I doubt they went out of there way. They do not have an NFL license and player likenesses are protected under copyright laws. APF was the only other non-licensed game to date and they severely limited what could be edited 10x worse than BB. BB at least allows created NFL logos, teams and player names (offline) and allow you to recreate a 32 team league.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

This bold part is not true at all. APF only allowed you 2 golds 3 silvers and 6 bronze players you could edit. You then got to choose the strength of your team like coverge dbs vs run stopping dbs. You did not get to fully edit every player on the team. The one game I know that did this was Tecmo Kickoff for DS and from what I read, the complete customization in that game did turn it into a cheesefest of sorts. As far as the developers going out of the way to limit. I doubt they went out of there way. They do not have an NFL license and player likenesses are protected under copyright laws. APF was the only other non-licensed game to date and they severely limited what could be edited 10x worse than BB. BB at least allows created NFL logos, teams and player names (offline) and allow you to recreate a 32 team league.

Alright, I'll amend what I said from "every football game" to "every football game with any significant amount of replay value" as you are correct that APF did limit the player editing aspect. That said, every Madden and NCAA Football game since the first iterations of each on the PS2, the player has been able to fully edit players. The heralded NFL2K5, one could fully edit players. Every simulation NBA game I can remember playing, one can fully edit players.

As far as editing names of players specifically, particularly with regard to user customization of a Backbreaker team roster to match an NFL roster, putting in a large name database of past and present NFL players and specifically blocking any combination of first and last name that happens to coincide with that of a name in this said database IS in fact going out of one's way to limit the player's creative power. For some counter-examples:

• EA isn't forced to block out every current college player's name from the NCAA Football games (heck, some people have even used TeamBuilder to create NFL teams with accurate rosters)
• All Pro Football 2K8 let the player create current NFL players, and even had some commentary name matches for last names of current popular players
• the WWE Smackdown games don't stop me from creating wrestlers named "Kevin Nash" or "Hulk Hogan", or other wrestlers under employment with non-WWE wrestling promotions; likewise with the TNA Impact! video game and creating non-TNA wrestlers
• Forza Motorsport 3 doesn't stop the player from putting a Gran Turismo logo on his car, and playing with it online no less
• the Pro Evolution Soccer series didn't stop the player from making teams and players from the major leagues that that series used to not have licenses for
• even Front Office Football on the PC doesn't block entry of NFL player names.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that the NFL could do anything about user-created content, other than maybe pursue the web sites that host a full NFL roster file (I do believe such a circumstance has happened before, and I think that's the reason why OS did not locally host any NCAA Football roster files but rather provided a forum to talk about and exchange files with other users; this was before the advent of the EA Locker which people use to share roster files today).

Bottom line, it's a completely unnecessary and unjustifiable design decision that has me baffled and I'm sure a number of other people who planned on making NFL teams rather miffed.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

Alright, I'll amend what I said from "every football game" to "every football game with any significant amount of replay value" as you are correct that APF did limit the player editing aspect. That said, every Madden and NCAA Football game since the first iterations of each on the PS2, the player has been able to fully edit players. The heralded NFL2K5, one could fully edit players. Every simulation NBA game I can remember playing, one can fully edit players. As far as editing names of players specifically, particularly with regard to user customization of a Backbreaker team roster to match an NFL roster, putting in a large name database of past and present NFL players and specifically blocking any combination of first and last name that happens to coincide with that of a name in this said database IS in fact going out of one's way to limit the player's creative power. For some counter-examples: EA isn't forced to block out every current college player's name from the NCAA Football games (heck, some people have even used TeamBuilder to create NFL teams with accurate rosters) All Pro Football 2K8 let the player create current NFL players, and even had some commentary name matches for last names of current popular players the WWE Smackdown games don't stop me from creating wrestlers named "Kevin Nash" or "Hulk Hogan", or other wrestlers under employment with non-WWE wrestling promotions; likewise with the TNA Impact! video game and creating non-TNA wrestlers Forza Motorsport 3 doesn't stop the player from putting a Gran Turismo logo on his car, and playing with it online no less the Pro Evolution Soccer series didn't stop the player from making teams and players from the major leagues that that series used to not have licenses for even Front Office Football on the PC doesn't block entry of NFL player names. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that the NFL could do anything about user-created content, other than maybe pursue the web sites that host a full NFL roster file (I do believe such a circumstance has happened before, and I think that's the reason why OS did not locally host any NCAA Football roster files but rather provided a forum to talk about and exchange files with other users; this was before the advent of the EA Locker which people use to share roster files today). Bottom line, it's a completely unnecessary and unjustifiable design decision that has me baffled and I'm sure a number of other people who planned on making NFL teams rather miffed.

Regarding roster editing, I don't believe Madden, NCAA, or 2k5 allowed edited rosters online. And we really don't know about Backbreaker offline yet. They do allow NFL names offline, and the version in the GI article didn't have working pro mode, or even position specific ratings added yet, so this was a very raw version and we don't know what all is editable offline. But I'll admit that if it isn't allowed offline, it's a huge mistake for attracting gamers who want the NFL created exactly.

As far as blocking names etc. online, copyrght laws are very complicated. It's not any easy thing to follow since some copyright infringement is almost encouraged. There are fan made Harry Potter trailers on youtube which are using movie footage illegally for instance.

I also know the NFL will go after anyone who uses their logos and footage illegally. I learned this the hard way. I made a NFL highlight video for youtube showing off some bigs hits and had it removed with a warning I used the NFL illegally. I then made the mistake of making a video for my Madden league with about 20 secs of NFL footage of player introductions and had my account suspended. The NFL is very protective of it's image and will go after violators much more aggressively than other companies.

[SA1NT401]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Players are not all the same size, look at this pic. The QB has little scrawny legs, the Olineman #88 has tree trunk legs, and the defender getting pancaked is kinda in between the two.

The silly things which bugs me actually is this....ALL THE PLAYERS are the SAME height. At least from what i can tell in all the vids.