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mestevo · 05-10-2010, 01:22 AM

Pros

- It's more football, a month earlier than NCAA.

- Tackles look cool thanks to the underlying tech.

Cons

- Too much still unknown, and with what is known to be missing, really can't assume anything not mentioned will be there

- Poor media exposure, and releasing the demo so close to the games release implies a lack of faith in the product, absent statements to the contrary (such as saying it's done and in the hands of the approval processes, teasing us w/ what we'll see in the demo)

- Only online play is one-off exhibition I believe? No online franchise. This is one place they really could have shined, but that also depends on franchise being worth being called that, since they seem to intentionaly avoid doing so ('single season mode... that you can play more than one season in!')

- No injuries or fatigue significantly impact play in a franchise environment. Players get hurt, that adversity is part of football and provides reason to have depth on your team. The game is called Backbreaker and it has no injuries. Sheesh.

Concerns/expectations/comments

- I am concerned that we'll have 2 half baked franchise modes, neither really up to the task of being close to what was expected.

- I am concerned we know almost all there is to know about the game, with just some smaller details to be worked out.

- Stats could be too simplified, which could mean problems with the progression system. (Latest on this was every player has the same 5 stats still right?)

- Form system could be inadequate and accomplish little. Depends on how it really works, and if it's effective or just random. Will your good players always be good and your bad players always be bad as a result, or is it random (both scenarios are arguably bad). There's just not substitute for injuries/fatigue.

- Not sold on player models, but don't hate them enough to put them as cons. The way many seem to be supersized makes me wonder if that's an engine thing and that there are collision problems if a DT tackled a scrawny kicker. If there aren't, there's little reason we couldn't have huge and tiny players...

- Camera angle, personally is TBD, no options makes it a lot closer to being a con

- Not sold on presentation, we've only seen a bunch of produced videos, rather than something like a drive or a quarter of football.

- A small part of me is afraid the demo will just be Tackle Alley. Really that should have been a $5 download for every system 4 months ago.

- Road to Backbreaker just sounds like the NCAA and every season if you do well you get an opportunity to move to a better conference, including the lack of playoffs until the 32 team league. (actually... struggle to make your team better for a few years until you earn the right to play in a 32 team league that has playoffs... sounds like a college team being adopted to the pros)

- Customization is neat, but I'll really only mess with this a couple of times before I settle into my franchise, so is neither a pro or con for me.

---

I am expecting to buy the game, not sure if it will be on release day or later. Really just have so many more concerns than pros or cons, this is all that I came up with off the top of my head. If everything goes bad franchise-wise though and it's just a shallow exhibition mode with a weak draft/FA system w/ no contracts like Madden 10's online franchise that's what it would take for me not to buy it.

JayBee74 · 05-10-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	You've seen their books? Other than wishful thinking what is the logic behind this and what numbers are these assumptions based on? EA's not going anywhere and their #1 domestic sports franchise isn't either.

They lost over $1 billion in fiscal year 2009 (ended March 31, 2009). Coincidentally they will announce their fiscal year 2010 results tomorrow. I think they were $350 million in the hole after the third quarter. But I will admit when I'm wrong-although the news wasn't great for fiscal 2009 they acquired a lot of properties including Playfish for $275 million, so the losses are somewhat misleading-they l;ook to be a pretty strong company.

Jackdog · 05-10-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee74


	why not? As much money as EA has been losing, and the cost of the NFL rights means less money they can put in their game. A good challenger could really put them in danger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee74


	They lost over $1 billion in fiscal year 2009 (ended March 31, 2009). Coincidentally they will announce their fiscal year 2010 results tomorrow. I think they were $350 million in the hole after the third quarter. But I will admit when I'm wrong-although the news wasn't great for fiscal 2009 they acquired a lot of properties including Playfish for $275 million, so the losses are somewhat misleading-they l;ook to be a pretty strong company.

Get back on topic. This has nothing to do with the topic question.

SA1NT401 · 05-10-2010, 01:59 PM

Pros

Something new and ACTUALLY INNOVATIVE
Tackles

Camera

Customization

Cons

ZERO info or feedback on how adequate the AI will Be....(thats this games make or break IMHO)

NoDakHusker · 05-10-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA1NT401


	ZERO info or feedback on how adequate the AI will Be....(thats this games make or break IMHO)

One of the biggest components of this game's rise or demise and we don't know a thing about it.
Another thing that someone mentioned earlier was game results. I'd like to know some stats/scores and also see how the game keeps stats as well.
I'm kind of a stat junkie

CreatineKasey · 05-10-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA1NT401


	Pros Something new and ACTUALLY INNOVATIVE Tackles Camera Customization Cons ZERO info or feedback on how adequate the AI will Be....(thats this games make or break IMHO)

This sums my thoughts up. We don't know if that AI will be great or garbage. Basically, all we know is the camera is close, it can customize, and the tackles are physics based. Beyond that, nothin'. Sometime, I suggest reading "the little things" thread in the APF forums. Will we see any of that? I'll put money on no.

yardz23 · 05-10-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	This sums my thoughts up. We don't know if that AI will be great or garbage. Basically, all we know is the camera is close, it can customize, and the tackles are physics based. Beyond that, nothin'. Sometime, I suggest reading "the little things" thread in the APF forums. Will we see any of that? I'll put money on no.

We don't know a ton about the AI. But i did read an interesting bit.

It described how the "switching player" on defense works. Since the camera follows the player, it could easily be disorienting when switching. So the devs programmed a system thats always running in the background, that predicts which defensive player is expected to make a play based on what the offense is doing and where the defensive player is. This program is continuously calculating during the play, so its dependent on whats actually going on, it takes into account who is being blocked, who can see what, proximity ect. Bottom line, it isn't just a "nearest player" system, its one that takes into account if the player is actually able to make a play.

The point is, we know the AI is self aware, and we know the game can read how aware they are. Since gameplay has been "hammered down" for months, and the camera a little less than that, the only thing the devs have been working on for a long time now is AI fixes and debugging.

SIM RULES · 05-10-2010, 02:37 PM

Pros:

1) An option
2) Inspiration for other companies considering making a game
3) Competition in the football game industry
4) Innovation
5) Allows gamers to experience something different
6) Inspires hope for future football gaming for real football fans
7) Allows gamers to make comparisons between different games and their features and see which one best represents real football
8) Allows gamers to view a game from a players perspective, which is SIM
9) Allows unprecedented customization in a football game
10) Being able to say that you helped usher in a new era of football gaming: hopefully

Cons:

1) Inspires more blind, brand loyalty
2) Inspires other blind, brand loyalty fans to attack the game strictly because it's not their brand
3) No fatigue
4) No injuries
5) For me personally, I do not like the fact that they stated that they want to make the game very simple and easy; where have I heard this before???
6) THE UNKNOWN...lol

05-10-2010, 01:22 AM	#33
mestevo MVP OVR: 33 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 19,579 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Your Pros/ Cons of Backbreaker... Pros - It's more football, a month earlier than NCAA. - Tackles look cool thanks to the underlying tech. Cons - Too much still unknown, and with what is known to be missing, really can't assume anything not mentioned will be there - Poor media exposure, and releasing the demo so close to the games release implies a lack of faith in the product, absent statements to the contrary (such as saying it's done and in the hands of the approval processes, teasing us w/ what we'll see in the demo) - Only online play is one-off exhibition I believe? No online franchise. This is one place they really could have shined, but that also depends on franchise being worth being called that, since they seem to intentionaly avoid doing so ('single season mode... that you can play more than one season in!') - No injuries or fatigue significantly impact play in a franchise environment. Players get hurt, that adversity is part of football and provides reason to have depth on your team. The game is called Backbreaker and it has no injuries. Sheesh. Concerns/expectations/comments - I am concerned that we'll have 2 half baked franchise modes, neither really up to the task of being close to what was expected. - I am concerned we know almost all there is to know about the game, with just some smaller details to be worked out. - Stats could be too simplified, which could mean problems with the progression system. (Latest on this was every player has the same 5 stats still right?) - Form system could be inadequate and accomplish little. Depends on how it really works, and if it's effective or just random. Will your good players always be good and your bad players always be bad as a result, or is it random (both scenarios are arguably bad). There's just not substitute for injuries/fatigue. - Not sold on player models, but don't hate them enough to put them as cons. The way many seem to be supersized makes me wonder if that's an engine thing and that there are collision problems if a DT tackled a scrawny kicker. If there aren't, there's little reason we couldn't have huge and tiny players... - Camera angle, personally is TBD, no options makes it a lot closer to being a con - Not sold on presentation, we've only seen a bunch of produced videos, rather than something like a drive or a quarter of football. - A small part of me is afraid the demo will just be Tackle Alley. Really that should have been a $5 download for every system 4 months ago. - Road to Backbreaker just sounds like the NCAA and every season if you do well you get an opportunity to move to a better conference, including the lack of playoffs until the 32 team league. (actually... struggle to make your team better for a few years until you earn the right to play in a 32 team league that has playoffs... sounds like a college team being adopted to the pros) - Customization is neat, but I'll really only mess with this a couple of times before I settle into my franchise, so is neither a pro or con for me. --- I am expecting to buy the game, not sure if it will be on release day or later. Really just have so many more concerns than pros or cons, this is all that I came up with off the top of my head. If everything goes bad franchise-wise though and it's just a shallow exhibition mode with a weak draft/FA system w/ no contracts like Madden 10's online franchise that's what it would take for me not to buy it. Last edited by mestevo; 05-10-2010 at 01:24 AM.

05-10-2010, 01:59 PM	#36
SA1NT401 Banned OVR: 25 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Ocean State	Re: Your Pros/ Cons of Backbreaker... Pros Something new and ACTUALLY INNOVATIVE Tackles Camera Customization Cons ZERO info or feedback on how adequate the AI will Be....(thats this games make or break IMHO)

05-10-2010, 02:37 PM	#40
SIM RULES Banned OVR: 3 Join Date: May 2010	Re: Your Pros/ Cons of Backbreaker... Pros: 1) An option 2) Inspiration for other companies considering making a game 3) Competition in the football game industry 4) Innovation 5) Allows gamers to experience something different 6) Inspires hope for future football gaming for real football fans 7) Allows gamers to make comparisons between different games and their features and see which one best represents real football 8) Allows gamers to view a game from a players perspective, which is SIM 9) Allows unprecedented customization in a football game 10) Being able to say that you helped usher in a new era of football gaming: hopefully Cons: 1) Inspires more blind, brand loyalty 2) Inspires other blind, brand loyalty fans to attack the game strictly because it's not their brand 3) No fatigue 4) No injuries 5) For me personally, I do not like the fact that they stated that they want to make the game very simple and easy; where have I heard this before??? 6) THE UNKNOWN...lol

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