No Injuries... I'm glad

[Americas Team1]

Quote: Originally Posted by capn_razzamataz

Sure, injuries/fatigue are a large part of sports games and it's definitely a shame that BB is missing them both. However I think its good that Natural Motion would rather not include them than to implement half-assed versions. Especially with injuries you have to think of the differences between animation-based games versus the physics-based system of Backbreaker. In Madden/NCAA/APF2k injuries are more or less random occurrences that can be programmed to happen more often for certain animations than with others. As the OP stated, in BB they'd have to define what constitutes a "natural" range of motion for limbs, joints, etc. and whenever the body is forced into an unnatural position there would be a high chance of injury. Or lets take other injuries into account. Bruised ribs, for example. They'd have to take the amount of force applied to the ribcage and check to see if that's a dangerous or unnatural amount. If so, injury. Now I'm not trying to persuade anybody into just accepting the fact that there's no injuries. If lack of fatigue/injuries are gamebreakers for anybody, then that's their prerogative. I guess I'm just trying to defend NM from the people who seem to think adding injuries is an easy thing because "other games" have done it. Backbreaker isn't like the "other games".

Agreed 100% GREAT post.

[adamgod8]

They decided to not include injuries, not because they didn't have time, but they felt they couldn't do it justice. Either people would be getting injured wayyy too much if the injuries were phyics based OR the injuries would be randomized and then you would see some guys legs get chopped and he ends up with a broken arm and you're like what? In other games it doesn't matter as much because all tackles are the same so injuries don't actually happen. In this game they would and they probably would have too much trouble balancing it for it to be enjoyable.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by Playmakers

WOW! I didn't realize the game was made without any injuries...... That's kinda a let down because you expect players to get injured or tired during the course of the season. Other wise they might as well be robots out there on the field I wonder who made that decision to leave out injuries.......

Pretty sure someone made the insinuation that they were viewing them as such.

What a world.

[SouthernBrick]

Quote: Originally Posted by capn_razzamataz

Sure, injuries/fatigue are a large part of sports games and it's definitely a shame that BB is missing them both. However I think its good that Natural Motion would rather not include them than to implement half-assed versions. Especially with injuries you have to think of the differences between animation-based games versus the physics-based system of Backbreaker. In Madden/NCAA/APF2k injuries are more or less random occurrences that can be programmed to happen more often for certain animations than with others. As the OP stated, in BB they'd have to define what constitutes a "natural" range of motion for limbs, joints, etc. and whenever the body is forced into an unnatural position there would be a high chance of injury. Or lets take other injuries into account. Bruised ribs, for example. They'd have to take the amount of force applied to the ribcage and check to see if that's a dangerous or unnatural amount. If so, injury. Now I'm not trying to persuade anybody into just accepting the fact that there's no injuries. If lack of fatigue/injuries are gamebreakers for anybody, then that's their prerogative. I guess I'm just trying to defend NM from the people who seem to think adding injuries is an easy thing because "other games" have done it. Backbreaker isn't like the "other games".

Exactly how I feel about no injuries/fatigue. Don't even add it if it isn't going to be implemented right.

Edit: Don't get me wrong I was majorly disappointed that at least fatigue wasn't added but, as long as it's in the next game(if there is one) I'll be happy. I'm happy it's not in the game if its not going to work correctly but, when they do get it working correctly it'll be all good. I'm glad they aren't just going to toss it in the mix just for the sake of having it in there.

[ddv25]

Quote: Originally Posted by capn_razzamataz

Sure, injuries/fatigue are a large part of sports games and it's definitely a shame that BB is missing them both. However I think its good that Natural Motion would rather not include them than to implement half-assed versions. Especially with injuries you have to think of the differences between animation-based games versus the physics-based system of Backbreaker. In Madden/NCAA/APF2k injuries are more or less random occurrences that can be programmed to happen more often for certain animations than with others. As the OP stated, in BB they'd have to define what constitutes a "natural" range of motion for limbs, joints, etc. and whenever the body is forced into an unnatural position there would be a high chance of injury. Or lets take other injuries into account. Bruised ribs, for example. They'd have to take the amount of force applied to the ribcage and check to see if that's a dangerous or unnatural amount. If so, injury. Now I'm not trying to persuade anybody into just accepting the fact that there's no injuries. If lack of fatigue/injuries are gamebreakers for anybody, then that's their prerogative. I guess I'm just trying to defend NM from the people who seem to think adding injuries is an easy thing because "other games" have done it. Backbreaker isn't like the "other games".

Quote: Originally Posted by adamgod8

They decided to not include injuries, not because they didn't have time, but they felt they couldn't do it justice. Either people would be getting injured wayyy too much if the injuries were phyics based OR the injuries would be randomized and then you would see some guys legs get chopped and he ends up with a broken arm and you're like what? In other games it doesn't matter as much because all tackles are the same so injuries don't actually happen. In this game they would and they probably would have too much trouble balancing it for it to be enjoyable.

Finally some people who got my point! Thank you guys.

Now there's people who think they should've just taken more time to refine this and waited a little bit longer with releasing the game...

Well, Natural Motion has a completely new conceptual approach to sports games and i understand they first have to see how the market/ the consumers react to it. So for me it's totally clear why they wouldn't add thousands of features that need a lot of work to be done correctly in the sense of fitting their concept.

There's no point comparing it to Madden (a game that i love, as well as ncaa and nfl2k5... they all have their pros and cons) - remember that Madden is in his - what? - 21 or 22 year?! + it's from a very wealthy company..

I'll give the game a shot and will support their fresh idea with buying the game. If they are successful in their approach - I already can't wait for their 2nd try (maybe with more confidence and financial background)

[Sublime12089]

Quote: Originally Posted by Allyn Wake

really?.. so because the game is new that gives the game reason to leave out something that happens everygame small or big?... thetas horrible seems to me like ur giving them a way out or a reason to make a horrible unrealistic game ... no fatigue or injuries thats unacceptable ... people get on the other game for leaving out hand warmers colorful socks an half time shows but people r glad or fine with a football player never getting injured or fatigued .... damn shame ...

The majority are fine with it because it is a fresh experience, but only in the interim. There will be many more people who would call it "unacceptable" if it is not included in BB2. In addition, there are only a few people working on the game and it's MSRP is 49.99.

Personally, I am probably going to pass on this game a wait until BackBreaker 2, if and when it is released. The League and Road to Backbreaker modes are what's most important to me to have the replay value to be worth more than a rental. And while no injury or fatigue plays into that and is certainly a negative, I am not convinced of the depth of their offseason moves, yet. I would also say "horrible unrealistic game" is a bit of a hyperbole at this point.

[hatisback]

Injuries worry me for future installments because I dont know how they are going to do it.

In the NFL, there is an unwritten code (and rules sometimes) that you cant hit people in certain places (ankles, head, horsecollar). If Backbreaker allows true physics then we wont be able to control where we hit people, and most of the players will be injured. I have already seen plenty of footage to back that up, especially with the legs. Tendon tears, broken ankles would run wild in the game.

If Backbreaker takes those ethics into account while programming the AI, then the tackling would get bland.

Like I said, I am worried about how they are going to do this but theoretically (though I am not a dev and know only a little about Euphoria) I actually think a dice roll on this would be the best.

[gr18]

I can understand the 'no dice roll' concept but at the same time if I were them I think I would've went 'dice roll' rather than the alternative which is getting ridiculed by most for not having injuries.

Injuries happen often where you look at a replay and it doesn't look like much happened to cause it wheras a viscious hit sometimes suprisingly doesn't result in an injury.