Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by SHAKYR

I disagree with your post. I have seen people become fans of a sports game by the depth and realism it shows. A sports game has to have bios and personality. I hate hockey and soccer in real life, but I would play a hockey and soccer game because it has depth. Heck, I hate tennis and golf, but the detail to the sport draws me into trying out the games. The Fight Night series isn't true to the sport. On every website I have been on gaming and sports, the fans are not satisfied. Many of the pass fans just aren't interested in Fight Night and it's unwillingness to take the sim/realism route. What age would you say are the NBA 2k and Madden fans? You giving the producers excuses. Why are the fans on these various sites I mentioned early walking away from the series? If you don't believe me I can copy and past back and forth conversations from the sites. I have talked to boxers and trainers. Some known and some up and coming. They say the Fight Night series is doing the sport an injustice. I stopped watching wrestling many many years ago, you can guess why I like the Smackdown/WWE series. They capture the sport. Oh, and your 16 year old comment is wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. The sports game market is young adults and adults. My nephews and son love realism and want to know more about a sport. Guess what got them interested in basketball.... I wasn't interested in MMA outside of Brock Lesnar, Anderson Silva, Rampage, and a few others fighters, but the interest was heighten with THQ's UFC games. It gave me a good experience and I couldn't wait for more. So, the fights on TV did nothing for me , but the game itself was worthy of my attention.

I couldnt disagree more and the numbers dont back up your argument.

Soccer: Most fans consider PES the more realistic and sim soccer game available but it gets destroyed by FIFA in sales every year. Why? Because Fifa has the full Fifa license and EA's PR machine behind it. Doesnt seem to matter that PES has all of the things sim fans want when it comes to sales.

Hockey: Back in 2009, NHL2k10 was considered the more realistic and sim soccer game and it got destroyed by EA's NHL10. Why? Because of EA's PR machine and fans seemed to prefer the more casual game.

Basketball: It took YEARS of horrible games for the 2k series to pass the Live series. During that time, it was clear to any basketball fan that 2k was the more realistic game but fans still flocked to Live. It took 3-4 years of absolute horrible games for fans to switch over to 2k.

You are making the same mistake that thousands of OSers make in assuming that what you want is what the majority wants and its not. If that was the case, Madden would be a COMPLETELY different game. ****, out of the box 2k isnt exactly a sim game. Visit that forum sometime and see the hundreds of threads discussing edits and sliders that are needed to make the game "sim."

See I recognize I'm not the majority. That as much as I would love to see a sim boxing game, that is never going to happen because the things I want dont sell games to casual fans. You cant put "Fight Night Champion 2 now with realistic clinching and footwork" on the back of the box and expect it to sell.

[SHAKYR]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I couldnt disagree more and the numbers dont back up your argument. Soccer: Most fans consider PES the more realistic and sim soccer game available but it gets destroyed by FIFA in sales every year. Why? Because Fifa has the full Fifa license and EA's PR machine behind it. Doesnt seem to matter that PES has all of the things sim fans want when it comes to sales. Hockey: Back in 2009, NHL2k10 was considered the more realistic and sim soccer game and it got destroyed by EA's NHL10. Why? Because of EA's PR machine and fans seemed to prefer the more casual game. Basketball: It took YEARS of horrible games for the 2k series to pass the Live series. During that time, it was clear to any basketball fan that 2k was the more realistic game but fans still flocked to Live. It took 3-4 years of absolute horrible games for fans to switch over to 2k. You are making the same mistake that thousands of OSers make in assuming that what you want is what the majority wants and its not. If that was the case, Madden would be a COMPLETELY different game. ****, out of the box 2k isnt exactly a sim game. Visit that forum sometime and see the hundreds of threads discussing edits and sliders that are needed to make the game "sim." See I recognize I'm not the majority. That as much as I would love to see a sim boxing game, that is never going to happen because the things I want dont sell games to casual fans. You cant put "Fight Night Champion 2 now with realistic clinching and footwork" on the back of the box and expect it to sell.

You still didn't answer my question about sports games age demographic. I debate back and forth with the producers about how Casual fans come and go. They agree. Word of mouth is what sell games and it also kills games.
You are talking about the old games graphs of the fan-base sales. Those fans are older and fans of the sports games they play. The fan-base for sports has matured greatly. I did a poll and survey that prove my point.
The Casual fan sells more games myth came from undocumented and fact based marketing research. It also has to do with the head CEO's. I have had conversations on Twitter with a Gaming Marketing Agent and she agrees with many of the points I made.
You have to ask yourself why doesn't all these arcadey games sell well today? The real arcadey version of sports games don't sell well at all.
I was around since the first videogame was made. I have played sports games since the beginning. The game had things that made me want to know more, like player strengths and weaknesses. Fight Night never truly gave you that. You didn't want to engage each boxers because he never stood out or showed something special.

You telling me I'm not saying anything factual. I disagree. I have been on many of these sites since their infancy(under a different name). I have been writing wishlist and engaging in conversations with various people in the industry for years. I never took no for an answer from them. I'm the person who got the 100 slots added to Fight Night Champion when the producers said it wasn't possible. I did my research and asked a producer from another company was it possible and he said yes it was. I went back to the producers and they added it. When fans accept something as fact they accept anything.

I'm part of that SimNation Movement and the editing part is a huge part of Madden and NBA 2K. Fans love this. This is what keeps games like WWE selling too. If Fight Night gave fans detailed editing tools that actually work we might not be having this conversation.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by SHAKYR

You still didn't answer my question about sports games age demographic. I debate back and forth with the producers about how Casual fans come and go. They agree. Word of mouth is what sell games and it also kills games. You are talking about the old games graphs of the fan-base sales. Those fans are older and fans of the sports games they play. The fan-base for sports has matured greatly. I did a poll and survey that prove my point. The Casual fan sells more games myth came from undocumented and fact based marketing research. It also has to do with the head CEO's. I have had conversations on Twitter with a Gaming Marketing Agent and she agrees with many of the points I made. You have to ask yourself why doesn't all these arcadey games sell well today? The real arcadey version of sports games don't sell well at all. I was around since the first videogame was made. I have played sports games since the beginning. The game had things that made me want to know more, like player strengths and weaknesses. Fight Night never truly gave you that. You didn't want to engage each boxers because he never stood out or showed something special. You telling me I'm not saying anything factual. I disagree. I have been on many of these sites since their infancy(under a different name). I have been writing wishlist and engaging in conversations with various people in the industry for years. I never took no for an answer from them. I'm the person who got the 100 slots added to Fight Night Champion when the producers said it wasn't possible. I did my research and asked a producer from another company was it possible and he said yes it was. I went back to the producers and they added it. When fans accept something as fact they accept anything. I'm part of that SimNation Movement and the editing part is a huge part of Madden and NBA 2K. Fans love this. This is what keeps games like WWE selling too. If Fight Night gave fans detailed editing tools that actually work we might not be having this conversation.

I dont see a question about sports age demographic. I see you saying you disagree with my statement which is strange. I said that a 16 yr old is "right in a fighting game core demo" range. Ive never seen anyone argue that a 16 year old is outside of the video game core demo.

I've been a staff member of OS for over 10 yrs. Had face to face conversations with members of the Madden and 2k teams about the casual sim debate and they back up my point that casuals are the primary purchasers of sports games.

What are you talking about when you refer to "arcadey games"? NFL Blitz? NHL Hitz? If not, then your point makes no sense. The biggest selling sports games are Fifa and Madden. You ask any person here and they will describe both of those games as arcade games and not realistic or sim out the box. They will also say it takes slider tweaks and some ratings tweaks to make the game even remotely sim. Yet those games are the two biggest selling sports games in the world. You can talk about your surveys and people you've talked to on twitter all you want but the numbers dont lie. Non-sim sports games are selling like hot cakes.

If the sim community held the weight that you claim it does, the games would be drastically different. You wouldnt have a Madden that has horrible OL/DL interaction and no pass interference penalties. You wouldnt have a FIFA where fouls are rarely called. Sim fans care about this stuff but Casuals dont. The fact that no changes have been made to issues like that shows that companies like EA are primarily focused on what casual fans want.

Also what cant you edit in FNC that you can in WWE? You can edit entrance, fighter skills, wardrobe, tendencies...

[SHAKYR]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I dont see a question about sports age demographic. I see you saying you disagree with my statement which is strange. I said that a 16 yr old is "right in a fighting game core demo" range. Ive never seen anyone argue that a 16 year old is outside of the video game core demo. I've been a staff member of OS for over 10 yrs. Had face to face conversations with members of the Madden and 2k teams about the casual sim debate and they back up my point that casuals are the primary purchasers of sports games. What are you talking about when you refer to "arcadey games"? NFL Blitz? NHL Hitz? If not, then your point makes no sense. The biggest selling sports games are Fifa and Madden. You ask any person here and they will describe both of those games as arcade games and not realistic or sim out the box. They will also say it takes slider tweaks and some ratings tweaks to make the game even remotely sim. Yet those games are the two biggest selling sports games in the world. You can talk about your surveys and people you've talked to on twitter all you want but the numbers dont lie. Non-sim sports games are selling like hot cakes. If the sim community held the weight that you claim it does, the games would be drastically different. You wouldnt have a Madden that has horrible OL/DL interaction and no pass interference penalties. You wouldnt have a FIFA where fouls are rarely called. Sim fans care about this stuff but Casuals dont. The fact that no changes have been made to issues like that shows that companies like EA are primarily focused on what casual fans want. Also what cant you edit in FNC that you can in WWE? You can edit entrance, fighter skills, wardrobe, tendencies...

Me and you can go back and forth until the cows come home. I'm going to stand my ground and keep the push going. I know why Fight Night didn't sell well and I know why NBA Live never made it out the door. So, you telling me I didn't purchase Fight Night and my brother gave me his copy....because?!? I asked Gamestop when people return their copies what's the reason other than a Casual fan wanting to trade it in for the next hot game out.

Quote:

Also what cant you edit in FNC that you can in WWE? You can edit entrance, fighter skills, wardrobe, tendencies..

You can't be serious you are comparing WWE's Create A Wrestler Mode to Fight Night's. The only thing Fight Night has for it's self is the GameFace Mode and that doesn't work the way it's suppose to.

The tendencies in Fight Night are my idea and the producers didn't implement them correctly. They are not very responsive if at all. There's so much missing from the overall game. I bet EA UFC game will be fleshed out. One of the producers EA's first MMA game said they looked at the wishlist was amazed and guess what. They used some of the ideas.

No one I mean no one can say a sim/realistic boxing game won't sell unless they made a game to that failed. I'm going to keep doing my podcasts and videos. I get support from many of the true boxing fans and The Simnation members. Da_Czar has help fans with his movement and FranchisePlay carry weight with his videos on various Youtube gaming outlets.

I wonder would this conversation be different if it was a MMA fan dissatisfied? I don't see boxing as a dying sport as long as I see people in the gym and I'm training my son. I have been to many fights and the seating isn't close to being an empty house.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by SHAKYR

Me and you can go back and forth until the cows come home. I'm going to stand my ground and keep the push going. I know why Fight Night didn't sell well and I know why NBA Live never made it out the door. So, you telling me I didn't purchase Fight Night and my brother gave me his copy....because?!? I asked Gamestop when people return their copies what's the reason other than a Casual fan wanting to trade it in for the next hot game out. You can't be serious you are comparing WWE's Create A Wrestler Mode to Fight Night's. The only thing Fight Night has for it's self is the GameFace Mode and that doesn't work the way it's suppose to. The tendencies in Fight Night are my idea and the producers didn't implement them correctly. They are not very responsive if at all. There's so much missing from the overall game. I bet EA UFC game will be fleshed out. One of the producers EA's first MMA game said they looked at the wishlist was amazed and guess what. They used some of the ideas. No one I mean no one can say a sim/realistic boxing game won't sell unless they made a game to that failed. I'm going to keep doing my podcasts and videos. I get support from many of the true boxing fans and The Simnation members. Da_Czar has help fans with his movement and FranchisePlay carry weight with his videos on various Youtube gaming outlets. I wonder would this conversation be different if it was a MMA fan dissatisfied? I don't see boxing as a dying sport as long as I see people in the gym and I'm training my son. I have been to many fights and the seating isn't close to being an empty house.

LOL. I dont even understand what you are arguing anymore. That first paragraph was nonsensical. I dont know your brother or why he would give you a game. LOL. I'm completely confused about what point you were trying to make.

Regarding the rest of your argument, you said "If Fight Night gave fans detailed editing tools that actually work we might not be having this conversation." EDITING TOOLS. You didnt say a thing about CAF. You said Editing tools. My response was that in FNC you can EDIT all the things you can edit in WWE. If you meant CAF, you should say CAF.

Let me tell you a little story: In the 20th century, there was a sport that was considered the biggest sport in the US. It was bigger than every other sport in the country other than baseball. Millions of people would watch and listen to the sport on TV and Radio and the athletes in the sport were considered celebrities. Fast forward to today and 3 times a year thousands of people watch the sport and the sport is on national tv on those three days. The name of that sport is....horse racing.

Now there isnt a person on the ****ing planet that could consider horse racing a popular sport anymore even though thousands of people watch the Triple Crown and its covered by NBC. The same argument could be made for boxing. There was a time when it was the one of the most popular sports in the workd. There was a time when it was on national TV and millions of people watched the sport. Now, its a niche sport. Its a niche sport that I love but I dont fool myself into thinking that the sport isnt SIGNIFICANTLY less popular than it was decades ago.

Just like the triple crown in horse racing, 3 to 4 times a year, Manny or Floyd will fight and a million people will buy the PPV. But that doesnt mean that boxing is healthy or popular just like people watching the triple crown doesnt mean horse racing is popular.

[SHAKYR]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

LOL. I dont even understand what you are arguing anymore. That first paragraph was nonsensical. I dont know your brother or why he would give you a game. LOL. I'm completely confused about what point you were trying to make. Regarding the rest of your argument, you said "If Fight Night gave fans detailed editing tools that actually work we might not be having this conversation." EDITING TOOLS. You didnt say a thing about CAF. You said Editing tools. My response was that in FNC you can EDIT all the things you can edit in WWE. If you meant CAF, you should say CAF. Let me tell you a little story: In the 20th century, there was a sport that was considered the biggest sport in the US. It was bigger than every other sport in the country other than baseball. Millions of people would watch and listen to the sport on TV and Radio and the athletes in the sport were considered celebrities. Fast forward to today and 3 times a year thousands of people watch the sport and the sport is on national tv on those three days. The name of that sport is....horse racing. Now there isnt a person on the ****ing planet that could consider horse racing a popular sport anymore even though thousands of people watch the Triple Crown and its covered by NBC. The same argument could be made for boxing. There was a time when it was the one of the most popular sports in the workd. There was a time when it was on national TV and millions of people watched the sport. Now, its a niche sport. Its a niche sport that I love but I dont fool myself into thinking that the sport isnt SIGNIFICANTLY less popular than it was decades ago. Just like the triple crown in horse racing, 3 to 4 times a year, Manny or Floyd will fight and a million people will buy the PPV. But that doesnt mean that boxing is healthy or popular just like people watching the triple crown doesnt mean horse racing is popular.

I apologize,I was rushing. My brother was a huge Knockout King and Fight Night fan. His patience like most fans dwindled. My brother used be a boxer and a trainer. He just couldn't force himself to like it.

I'm a 70's baby and horse racing never interest me or my friends. It was always boxing or Martial Arts movies.

[JayBee74]

I do want another game, with more emphasis on strategy and fatigue.

Heck, graphics could even be compromised if they had to be.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

But that doesnt mean that boxing is healthy or popular just like people watching the triple crown doesnt mean horse racing is popular.

I see your point about mainstream popularity, but horse racing is a little more popular then you think, given the rise of legal online gambling.

Kind of a side thought there.