Bowl Games Discussion

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

Harbaugh has 3 10-win seasons in his 5 years at Michigan...and yet, it sure feels like he’s been a let down. I can’t remember the last time they showed up for a big game. Penn State last year? Maybe ND this year...but they keep finishing poorly and it just leaves a sour taste. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Never beating ohio st has got to tick off alot of Michigan fans. That would drive me insane.

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[Scott]

Quote: Originally Posted by superjames1992

Alabama running up the score/rubbing it in here? Could've kneeled out the clock.

Michigan could have just stopped them.


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[Tovarich]

Harbaugh certainly is not one to complain about rubbing it in. There's a reason Carroll asked him 'what's your deal?'

[WaitTilNextYear]

Michigan is what it is. A good college team that can hold its own in a good conference/division until it has to play the teams with top talent (OSU, Bama) or teams with similar talent but on the road (PSU, Wisconsin, ND). Not an elite team, but a good bunch of kids year in, year out. I'm looking forward to the next QB because I feel that Patterson being just 6'2" caused a lot of their problems and made him skittish in the pocket. McCaffrey is 6'5" as is Joe Milton.

And if I can do my old man yelling at cloud schtick--it's a bit unrealistic for Michigan to topple the elite college teams, which have become a de facto NFL minor league for a lot of reasons (bag men, online classes, lax academics, steroids, fortuitous grad transfers, grayshirting). Certainly these 'excuses' come off just that way to fans of the OSU/Clemson/Bama/OU teams of the world, but it's hard to argue that it's an uphill climb for any college programs still trying to maintain a serious student-athlete model.

[Sportsforever]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

Michigan is what it is. A good college team that can hold its own in a good conference/division until it has to play the teams with top talent (OSU, Bama) or teams with similar talent but on the road (PSU, Wisconsin, ND). Not an elite team, but a good bunch of kids year in, year out. I'm looking forward to the next QB because I feel that Patterson being just 6'2" caused a lot of their problems and made him skittish in the pocket. McCaffrey is 6'5" as is Joe Milton. And if I can do my old man yelling at cloud schtick--it's a bit unrealistic for Michigan to topple the elite college teams, which have become a de facto NFL minor league for a lot of reasons (bag men, online classes, lax academics, steroids, fortuitous grad transfers, grayshirting). Certainly these 'excuses' come off just that way to fans of the OSU/Clemson/Bama/OU teams of the world, but it's hard to argue that it's an uphill climb for any college programs still trying to maintain a serious student-athlete model.

As for your 'excuses'/'reasons' listed above, Notre Dame has been saying the same thing for the last 30 years as well. I think these are legitimate concerns...especially on the academic front. You don't see schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, service academies, etc, able to be competitive at the elite level year in and year out.

All that said, Harbaugh has actually done a decent job recruiting when you look at the talent that's come to Ann Arbor under his watch. The disappoint, IMO, has been the lack of development, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I really am starting to wonder if they'll ever compete with Ohio State again...I know they will, but the gap just seems huge right now.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

As for your 'excuses'/'reasons' listed above, Notre Dame has been saying the same thing for the last 30 years as well. I think these are legitimate concerns...especially on the academic front. You don't see schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, service academies, etc, able to be competitive at the elite level year in and year out. All that said, Harbaugh has actually done a decent job recruiting when you look at the talent that's come to Ann Arbor under his watch. The disappoint, IMO, has been the lack of development, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I really am starting to wonder if they'll ever compete with Ohio State again...I know they will, but the gap just seems huge right now.

For the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry to get back to what it once was--namely either team being capable of winning in any given year--I think it'll take something pretty seismic. Some sort of crippling scandal on OSU's part (bigger than Tressel-gate or Meyer employing despicable human beings on his coaching staff) or NCAA rules changes leveling things out. If it becomes OK to pay players above the table, then very few schools have deeper pockets than Michigan and Stanford.

I guess we'll see how these NIL laws shake out.

The maddening thing is even with an institutional disadvantage ala ND/Stanford, the Wolverines have gotten so close but suffered so many gutting losses. 2015 MSU, 2016 Iowa, 2016 OSU, 2016 FSU...win a few more of these and it becomes more apparent how good Harbaugh is doing for Michigan. As it stands, however, the picture is much murkier than that.

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

Michigan is what it is. A good college team that can hold its own in a good conference/division until it has to play the teams with top talent (OSU, Bama) or teams with similar talent but on the road (PSU, Wisconsin, ND). Not an elite team, but a good bunch of kids year in, year out. I'm looking forward to the next QB because I feel that Patterson being just 6'2" caused a lot of their problems and made him skittish in the pocket. McCaffrey is 6'5" as is Joe Milton. And if I can do my old man yelling at cloud schtick--it's a bit unrealistic for Michigan to topple the elite college teams, which have become a de facto NFL minor league for a lot of reasons (bag men, online classes, lax academics, steroids, fortuitous grad transfers, grayshirting). Certainly these 'excuses' come off just that way to fans of the OSU/Clemson/Bama/OU teams of the world, but it's hard to argue that it's an uphill climb for any college programs still trying to maintain a serious student-athlete model.

One thing I've noticed though. And I've said this for a while. (Not on here) but Michigan never has an elite QB. You can have all the talent in the world. 5 stars out the ***. But if you dont have a good QB, you more then likely will struggle. Mac Jones outshined Shea Patterson and the dude is a sophomore that got thrown into the fire recently.

Michigan has talent, always does. But they never have an elite QB. And they never truly make that jump because of that imo.



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[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by DamnYanks2

One thing I've noticed though. And I've said this for a while. (Not on here) but Michigan never has an elite QB. You can have all the talent in the world. 5 stars out the ***. But if you dont have a good QB, you more then likely will struggle. Mac Jones outshined Shea Patterson and the dude is a sophomore that got thrown into the fire recently. Michigan has talent, always does. But they never have an elite QB. And they never truly make that jump because of that imo. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Yeah, Denard Robinson was the last next-level QB for Michigan. Not coincidentally, they beat OSU and won their bowl game in 2011 largely because Denard was a straight baller.

They've had some top talents since then (Devin Gardner and Shea Patterson) that haven't really come through as hoped. Gardner was a warrior stuck behind a FSU-like offensive line (think Deondre Francois getting almost murdered a couple years ago). Shea had the rankings, but never really put it all together. The constant upheaval in offensive coaches didn't do Shea any favors from Ole Miss to 2 different ones at UM.

Mostly, you're right. Harbaugh has been trying to paper things over with Jake Rudocks, Wilton Speights, and John O'Korns. Not good, Bob.