I hate the way this game is perceived vs the actual reality of it all

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Strings74

Eh. The guy makes a point and backed it up with links which you are just now choosing to ignore. Anyone who thinks that competition wouldn't be anything but ultimately beneficial to us end users is just not thinking it through. I'd be willing to bet these games would look quite a bit different today if there were competing products over the past 7 years.

He didn't make a point. He threw out some numbers, which we already new. I don't think those numbers make his point.

Would I love to see competition and would it be beneficial to the end user, absolutely. No where did I say anything different. I just don't believe competition would improve or change EA's football games, when it never did in the past.

[Strings74]

Quote: Originally Posted by MagicMan1315

So... If EA made such a bad product... then why did the NFL renew their 5 year license in 2009? It goes through 2012. Which is probably going to be fine with EA. They are bringing on people from FIFA which will probably make a product that blows 2k designers out of the water. And its not as though we are loving EA, its more along the lines of not understand where the hate comes from? "They make a sub-par product!" Very debatable. "They have a monopoly!" NFL allowed it and its not an illegal one either. No one is hurt by it as they do not control a necessary good or service. So?...

It's ridiculous to conclude that the game is a quality product just because the NFL (or NCAA for that matter) keeps renewing the license.

As long as the game reflects positively on the NFL/NCAA and sells well (which Madden and NCAA more certainly do) then the NFL/NCAA couldn't be happier.

Is the game not a quality product? I dunno. I don't think I'd go that far, but I will say that I have been disappointed.

I'm not "hating" on EA for grabbing up an exclusive license. It makes great business sense and there's not a company out there that wouldn't love to corner its market like this, but it's not a question of quality. EA is the market leader in this area of gaming and it used it's resources to gain for itself a significant competitive edge.

From the perspective of a gamer, I think that's not an ideal situation. And while I don't "hate" the games, I definitely believe that the games would be even better now if there was another major player making football video games. That's just common sense.

Also, while I get the frustration with the posters who constantly complain and go crazy over every last inaccuracy or detail, I personally find the other side just as bad: ready to jump on anyone who dares say that the game isn't anything but the best game ever.

We're having a discussion over the merits of a video game here. Everyone get a little perspective. Sheesh.

[Bullet Sponge]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

How is that a dent in Madden's sales? What were Madden's sales the year before? Madden sold more on Ps2 than all versions of 2k combined. And that's when 2k dropped the price in their best year ever. What happens when that price goes back to 60 bucks?

Let's see. I laid out the figures for you. Not sure how much clearer it can be. NFL 2k5 sold 3.5 million copies. That 3.5 x $60 that EA potentially lost out on. (over $200 million btw).[/quote]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

More conjecture and speculation.

If you think "competition is good for the marketplace" is conjecture you're hopeless. Exclusive deals are bad. I don't blame EA for grabbing it when they could. I don't care why they did it, or if the NFL/NCAA/NASCAR was complicit. My point is its bad for consumers and we should all be happy if it ended.

As for me being one of "them". lol I don't even know what that means. But it's a good way for you to back out of an argument you're getting owned in. I think I've made my points fairly clearly. I'll move on too then.

[Strings74]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

He didn't make a point. He threw out some numbers, which we already new. I don't think those numbers make his point. Would I love to see competition and would it be beneficial to the end user, absolutely. No where did I say anything different. I just don't believe competition would improve or change EA's football games, when it never did in the past.

Sure he did. You even challenged him to provide numbers because you doubted what he was saying. He did so and now you're claiming "Oh, I already knew that". Furthermore, it definitely proves his point. ~35% market share is very significant and it's completely reasonable to conclude that EA wanted the exclusive license to crush that competition. I mean, why else would they want it? That's just basic business sense.

Your last comment makes no sense. If you don't feel that competition would improve the game then why would you "absolutely" want competition? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, imo.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bullet Sponge

Let's see. I laid out the figures for you. Not sure how much clearer it can be. NFL 2k5 sold 3.5 million copies. That 3.5 x $60 that EA potentially lost out on. (over $200 million btw).

You're assuming that someone is only purchasing one game. If you talked to the 2k guys that price drop wasn't that that was aimed at. They knew at 20 bucks peolpe were buying both. They just hoped the 20 dollar price would get people to try it.. There's nothing to suggest that was making a dent in EA's bottomline. What were their sales the previous year? How do they compare? That $200 million figure is inflated as that's obviously not all money that goes to EA.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bullet Sponge

If you think "competition is good for the marketplace" is conjecture you're hopeless. Exclusive deals are bad. I don't blame EA for grabbing it when they could. I don't care why they did it, or if the NFL/NCAA/NASCAR was complicit. My point is its bad for consumers and we should all be happy if it ended. As for me being one of "them". lol I don't even know what that means. But it's a good way for you to back out of an argument you're getting owned in. I think I've made my points fairly clearly. I'll move on too then.

Where did I say competition isn't good for the consumer? That's a quote I'd like to see. I said it would have no affect on the quality or the overall feel of EA's football games. It never has before.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Strings74

Sure he did. You even challenged him to provide numbers because you doubted what he was saying. He did so and now you're claiming "Oh, I already knew that". Furthermore, it definitely proves his point. ~35% market share is very significant and it's completely reasonable to conclude that EA wanted the exclusive license to crush that competition. I mean, why else would they want it? That's just basic business sense. Your last comment makes no sense. If you don't feel that competition would improve the game then why would you "absolutely" want competition? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, imo.

I disagree. I don't think it had any affect on Madden, IIRC their sales were even stronger than they were the year before. Nor was 2k going to release the game at $20 the following year.

Why would I want that? Choices. The games are different. What was one person's cup of tea, might not have been mine.

In 2004 for example, there were a ton of people who loved Madden, and couldn't stand the 2k series and vice versa, as well as a group that like both. The games were different. The ability for the consumer to choose a game that's best for them is always beneficial is it not?

[Strings74]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

You're assuming that someone is only purchasing one game. If you talked to the 2k guys that price drop wasn't that that was aimed at. They knew at 20 bucks peolpe were buying both. They just hoped the 20 dollar price would get people to try it.. There's nothing to suggest that was making a dent in EA's bottomline. What were their sales the previous year? How do they compare? That $200 million figure is inflated as that's obviously not all money that goes to EA. Where did I say competition isn't good for the consumer? That's a quote I'd like to see. I said it would have no affect on the quality or the overall feel of EA's football games. It never has before.

Wow.

So 2k sold 3.5 million football game units and you are arguing that "there's no proof" that this affected EA's bottom line?

Clearly someone has not run their own lemonade stand before.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Strings74

Wow. So 2k sold 3.5 million football game units and you are arguing that "there's no proof" that this affected EA's bottom line? Clearly someone has not run their own lemonade stand before.

You're assuming none of those people bought Madden then? You saw their bottom line the year before and then that year?