The botching of "next gen"....

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

no offense to OS but I seriously doubt that any NCAA or Madden programmers actually read here and take anything away from all of these rants.

I haven't taken the time myself. It's definitely a thankless task, but if they truly want constructive feedback forums like this is where they should come. There are programmers that have set themselves out there for ridicule and get my utmost respect, because it has to be hard getting beat down so much. For every positive comment you're likely to get 4 negative ones. There was a Madden programmer on the gaming-age forums that spoke to things he was working on with the game (360) and he was getting totally slammed. Now I don't think he goes there anymore. There was a 2K basketball dev in the forums here last year that would get slammed for every little thing people thought should change.

I read an interview of a programmer for WoW and he spoke to the "negative-nannies". He said yeah, some can be overzealous but as a programmer you have to separate the flat out harsh comments from those that are being constructive because a lot of times guys on these forums have great ideas. When you see stuff that people like Kanobi (back in the day) would come up with all these wildly concocted/thoroughly thought out ideas for improving Franchise, or you see the stuff LBz types of for front seven play - these are things they need to be taking note of, and there's one convenient place to get them - the forums. If devs are thin-skinned because they're game lacks certain features (*cough* BETTER PLAYER INTERACTION *cough*)... well, I'm sorry. If your game is good/great it'll get recognized as so - even though people will still complain

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

i know people use this board to vent but it's really not going to change anything IMO. i'm just curious for those of you who have written well thought out, very, very, very long posts about things you feel about EA's games if you have sent those to EA Sports in either snail mail or email format and if so, have you gotten any replies? no offense to OS but I seriously doubt that any NCAA or Madden programmers actually read here and take anything away from all of these rants.

Game programmers and developers visit this site often. Actually Ive been told that one of the heads of a major developer visits here often and looks at the bugs and glitches and wishlist threads. With that said, its useless to post complaints or requests this late in the development cycle. The E3 build is usually 90-95% finished and we are 3 weeks away from E3. The best thing to do would be to accept whats in the 360 version of NCAA 07 and post in the wishlist the stuff you want to see next year.

Also, keep in mind that this community is influential but very small. People complain about this series focusing to much on graphics and not enough on stuff like gang tackles and oline interaction. What people need to realize is that graphics sell games. The average consumer bought Fight Round 3 and Madden not because of the gameplay but because they looked great.

[koolbubbaice]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Game programmers and developers visit this site often. Actually Ive been told that one of the heads of a major developer visits here often and looks at the bugs and glitches and wishlist threads. With that said, its useless to post complaints or requests this late in the development cycle. The E3 build is usually 90-95% finished and we are 3 weeks away from E3. The best thing to do would be to accept whats in the 360 version of NCAA 07 and post in the wishlist the stuff you want to see next year. Also, keep in mind that this community is influential but very small. People complain about this series focusing to much on graphics and not enough on stuff like gang tackles and oline interaction. What people need to realize is that graphics sell games. The average consumer bought Fight Round 3 and Madden not because of the gameplay but because they looked great.

Agree.. Companies cater to the masses first then the sim nuts..Will always be that way untill the majority of gamers become sim nuts, & that won't happen.

[koolbubbaice]

Quote: Originally Posted by bangpow

Okay, I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but I started doing research for an article for my site a little bit ago about how the first versions of both Madden and NCAA were reviewed for the PS2 and let me tell you, it's quite a contrast on what has been said about the next gen games of this year. These are all from IGN's website and these are what was said in their reviews: Madden 2001 (PS2)- Score 9 out of 10 "it's the best football game that's ever been released. Madden is a must-own title for sports fans." "And the thing that PlayStation 2 owners are getting is what is arguably the very best that this cherished series has ever seen, as it is essentially a graphically enhanced version of the critically acclaimed PlayStation release with some other nice little touches" "The Madden series has pretty much been the only one that has really factored in momentum and it has been done better here on PS2 than ever before in the series." "This series is the granddaddy of virtual football and for all intents and purposes, this version of the game is the finest of the entire bunch." Now on to NCAA 2002 (The first version released on PS2)- Score 9 out of 10 "Get ready to engulf yourself in what is simply one of the best college football games ever made." "Well, that day has finally come and the long wait has been completely worth it, as EA has managed to construct a game in the form of NCAA Football 2002 that is arguably the best college football videogame that has ever graced a console. While based partly on the Madden NFL 2001 engine, it features a large number of improvements in various aspects of the game and has been loaded with practically every single imaginable feature that a diehard sports fanatic would expect to see in a videogame." "While it's completely debatable as to whether or not Madden NFL 2001 is a better or worse playing football game than NFL2K1, there would be no point in arguing which game had the most bells and whistles as Madden was the clear champion in this arena. That said, EA Sports has been able to top what they did in last year's Madden with this incarnation of NCAA Football 2002. Not only does the game have the common Exhibition and Season play modes, both of which allow you to play as any of the currently available teams, but there's a nice Practice mode that gives users a chance to get a good feel of the playbooks and an insanely deep Dynasty Mode. " "My personal opinion is that this is the best college football game ever made and has more replay value than you could ever hope for in a $50 purchase." Now, both of those games have gotten a whopping 9 out of 10 out of the gate and they were the very first versions on the "next gen" system. Not only that, but they were feature rich and we didn't have to compromise a lot of the features that we liked about the current gen games at the time. Heck, Madden even beat NFL 2K1 in the "bells in whistles" department that year, too. I don't know, I am really not wanting to hear the excuses why things that we are used to and expecting are not in the game. Heck, what is the deal with the online leagues this year? I see they failed to mention that thus far. They could be in there, but I would think they would mention that one from the beginning since everyone and their mother's have been asking for it for the last couple year. On the other hand, maybe we're jumping the gun a bit here? I mean, maybe during E3, they release more features of the game and they improved the gameplay a whole heckuva lot. At least I sure hope so.

the 360 & PS3 are different beasts then the PS1 & 2..

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I agree with you there. But that's where EA's still at fault though - their lack of pushing the technology available in the current gen is why some aren't willing to give EA a long leash on this one. If MVP were coming to next gen, would people complain that it needs a redesigned engine? I'd think not. People can complain about the supposed ports on the 360 - and I can only speak to the two I own - NBA2K6 is easily the best console basketball game ever imo. But the devs pushed the genre forward significantly in the current gen of hardware, so to me you shouldn't expect them to have to bury it all and start from scratch. But something like Tomb Raider - yeah, there isn't that much to distinguish it from the current environment game so it's likely not worth the $60 ($60 is too pricey for games anyway). I don't think anyone expects EA to reinvent the wheel. Again, I don't think it's too much to expect innovations we saw in current gen football games years ago to somehow make it into NCAA or Madden on the 360. It's almost as if they've totally discounted what anyone else has done.

Good post Spank. I agree with you. There should be things that should port-over. There shouldn't have to be this "total re-write" that some are giving EA slack for. Lets face it, after 15 years of Madden games, there should be lots to go back and reference. AI should have been MUCH further along than it is currently. That AI should be somewhat transferrable, but if it was bad BEFORE, yes, I see that its incentive to start from scratch.

BUT- the fact remains that the reason so much needs done now is because so much WAS NOT done before. That doesn't excuse EA, because they are the ones that allowed Madden to age and progress so slowly in pursuit of the quick buck and only implementing a few features per year that would excite a few gum-chewing 9 year olds into a mid-level frenzy.

What hurts even worse is- even if people excuse EA for having to do a several year re-write implementation, the level of priority they assign to certain things is quite idiotic, while they leave other basic things out.

Here's the impression I got from the IGN preview of NCAA 07 360.. its as if EA is saying..

”Hey, sorry folks, we don’t have ESPN the Mag. Covers in next gen, or some gameplay modes, or classic teams, or all the schools as in previous versions- but hey, we got the actual cad designs from the helmet manufacturers and we mapped out 2 miles around each of the top 40 or so popular stadiums.. as well as calculated the sun’s trajectory above the stadium during fall. Isn’t that exciting?”

Preposterous.

[quietcool72]

Quote: Originally Posted by koolbubbaice

the 360 & PS3 are different beasts then the PS1 & 2..

They are different beasts in terms of hardware, but does that somehow excuse the sheer plethora of features on the previous platform being absent on the "Next Gen" version over the current-gen version?

If so, how?

[laxman490]

maybe this shows how the jump from ps2/xbox to ps3/360 isnt the same as ps1 to ps2/xbox. maybe the 360 really isnt that powerful.

not trying to flame or anything, this is a serious question

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by laxman490

maybe this shows how the jump from ps2/xbox to ps3/360 isnt the same as ps1 to ps2/xbox. maybe the 360 really isnt that powerful. not trying to flame or anything, this is a serious question

I can't speak for NCAA or Madden next gen, but now games can only get so much more "better looking". A lot of the new emphesis in games is a physics engine.