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The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

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Old 04-16-2009, 07:27 PM   #49
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

Beautifully detailed and thoroughly explained post.. I wish EA would look at threads like this more often.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:44 PM   #50
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

The original post (although dripping with sarcasm at times) was well done, I certainly admire the dedication to getting your point across...well done sir, kudos!

The solution though is not simply fixing the blocking.

Better blocking with the same atrocious defensive AI would simply be a disaster. The inability to stop your CPU defenders from behaving like Alzheimer's patients is just as central to the overall game as the option blocking in my mind.

This continues to be my greatest personal disappointment in the "next-gen" games...it is not the graphics or even the admittedly lame presentation (seriously EA guys...how many YEARS has it been since people at Community Days were howling about the lack of on-field referees and interactive sideline chain gangs and they are STILL missing from NCAA 10? just flat out embarrassing by now)...no the biggest disappointment remains that these games use less of the available processing power for AI and plain logic than they did last gen. If we had a game that was visually indistinguishable from NCAA 2007 but simply addressed the gaping holes in AI, I think there would be a lot more people satisfied with the game...just my $0.02 worth...
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:48 PM   #51
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

Kudos on wanting to punch a bay, and relating horsecrap to roast beef!
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:16 PM   #52
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stylee
To be a jerk....

Navy/Notre Dame, 2007

http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2007...58266899916666

Go down down down until you see the videos of that game, and then go to "Second half, Drive One"
8th play they have a freeze play that they motion both A-Backs into the backfield for a wishbone look


So, they've lined up in a wishbone once and didn't even run a play.
Paul Johnson ran that "play" 3 different times this year, and it is NOT a designed play. It is intended to draw the defense offsides on 4th down because they are anticipating the snap as the A-Back finishes his tail motion through the heels of the B-Back. So, I guess technically you could say they lined up in the wishbone, but they never once ran a play from it. Jerk. :-)

Quote:
Another play that'd be nice, IF they could run it correctly, is the Speed/FB Counter Option/whatever you want to call it, that PJ uses a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuLwz-I2QOE

I guess this should be in the flexbone thread though
Part of the problem with this is that the formations and such need to support subbing and these types of players. GT nor Navy do not use a fullback, yet, this stupid game REQUIRES you to have a fullback on your roster. The B-Back is NOT a fullback; he is a tailback that is a tough inside runner who has enough speed to get to the outside, like Jonathan Dwyer or Adrian Peterson (or Ga Southern fame in the previous video). I seriously doubt EA fixed that aspect of the game and will still call that position "FB" and the A-Back positions "HB". And of course, if I recruit a great inside runner and move him to FB he gets a nice ratings drop. Slick, guys, real slick.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:47 PM   #53
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

and, of course, there's no reason to put anyone decent at the FB/B-Back spot anyway, because they don't run a veer path and will never have an alley to run through, because the EMOL is almost always base blocked (sometimes my PS Tackle ignores the DE if he's facing a wide 7 tech, but it seems to be random).

Because you seem to have a good idea of what's going on in the football AND video game side of things, let me ask you, steebu

do you think midline would be harder (or just less likely) to program than veer? It'd probably be harder for the casual player to master, IMO, because it's pretty much only useful against a 3tech DT and the read is so quick, but is there any reason we could expect veer implemented and NOT midline? It's a staple play, used so much more often than something like "WB Lead" or whatever


oh, and that's why I said "freeze play"
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:32 AM   #54
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stylee
and, of course, there's no reason to put anyone decent at the FB/B-Back spot anyway, because they don't run a veer path and will never have an alley to run through, because the EMOL is almost always base blocked (sometimes my PS Tackle ignores the DE if he's facing a wide 7 tech, but it seems to be random).
I don't think I've ever seen a 4 (or 4i, or 5) tech ever NOT get base blocked in this game when running the option, unless the PST got blown up.

Quote:
Because you seem to have a good idea of what's going on in the football AND video game side of things, let me ask you, steebu

do you think midline would be harder (or just less likely) to program than veer? It'd probably be harder for the casual player to master, IMO, because it's pretty much only useful against a 3tech DT and the read is so quick, but is there any reason we could expect veer implemented and NOT midline? It's a staple play, used so much more often than something like "WB Lead" or whatever

oh, and that's why I said "freeze play"
I personally don't think EA will improve anything because the blocking in general is just screwed up. Unless they completely fix base blocking to begin with, how are they going to backside scoop block and cut block correctly?

Because of the problems with blocking to begin with, I think it'd be next to impossible to implement the midline correctly. I mean, it's such a super-fast read to begin with! The player, in a split second, and from a far-away-behind-the-QB camera angle, has to read the shoulders of the 3 tech. Does anyone honestly believe that's possible? Does anyone honestly believe the subtleties of defending the option, say, with a mesh charge by a 4 tech, is implementable by EA?

But that aside, I've played NCAA 07 that I picked up used for $5 for a bit now the last few days and I'm going crazy with the blocking on these plays. I've seen linemen supposed to base block the guy in front of them (a OG on a 2 and the OT on a 4 tech) and instead they rotate in place and pick up someone else. I even saw one where the center blocked a 0 and both guards rotated towards each other, then ran towards each other behind the center! The RG ended up blocking the DT on the left side and the LG ended up running in place behind the C! And the blocking scheme was "FIRE OUT STRAIGHT AHEAD". Until garbage like this gets fixed there's no hope for any sophisticated blocking schemes in the option to work properly. And don't give me this, "Well, maybe your OL had a low Run Block or Awareness rating" crap.

Please. Even if you're the dumbest OL in the world, if you're told to base block the guy in front of you, are you gonna rotate on your off foot, run behind the center, and block the DT on the opposite side?

I believe the "changes to the flexbone" that they're touting will be incomplete. Yeah, they'll leave the 4 tech unblocked now for you to read but there will be no midline and no improvements to the actual playbook (but plenty of weird plays that no team runs). I'm hopeful, though, because at least they've recognized the problem. Now whether my original post brought that about is something else entirely, but maybe all the attention this is getting will lead to some much improved gameplay on the option side. Maybe we can just insult and taunt them into fixing it? :-)
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:11 AM   #55
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Icon6 Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steebu
And of course, if I recruit a great inside runner and move him to FB he gets a nice ratings drop. Slick, guys, real slick.
Not anymore!
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:41 AM   #56
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Re: The option is broken: would EA fix it? (long)

My HS team plays option football. I'm the A-back and I hear what the OP is saying all the time.

I keep hearing, don't block this DE lol. And so forth.

The option is freakin amazing if executed right.

Gap control and Contain kill it though.

Great post OP.
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