When will EA realize that you can't have a QB...

[DonkeyJote]

Quote: Originally Posted by mgoblue678

Only if you manually moved the defensive end out farther than his initial starting position though, not if he was left in his normal starting position or was ai controlled. Also the reason it is easy to run around the ot's with de's is because the ot's don't back up far enough on their drops or get wide enough and instead try to engage the de right at the line of scrimmage. That is the other half of the equation that would have to be corrected.

I got a ton of sacks in NCAA last year with DE's, and I didn't move them wide. I'm not saying that the DE's behave the way they should, but it is not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. It's probably a lot harder to change it than we're thinking. It'd probably have to come at the expense of a lot of other gameplay improvements. And it could create a lot of other problems. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tried at some point, but there is a good chance this could take a couple cycles to get right, and that first year could end up terrible.

[mgoblue678]

Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyJote

I got a ton of sacks in NCAA last year with DE's, and I didn't move them wide. I'm not saying that the DE's behave the way they should, but it is not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. It's probably a lot harder to change it than we're thinking. It'd probably have to come at the expense of a lot of other gameplay improvements. And it could create a lot of other problems. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tried at some point, but there is a good chance this could take a couple cycles to get right, and that first year could end up terrible.

How is not as bad as I make it out to be? They run straight into the lineman, it doesn't even remotely resemble what should happen. I really don't want excuses from EA at this point, this issue has gone unaddressed for way too long now. If other games were able to replicate it, EA should be able to as well and if they can't that tells me they need a new engine.

And once again you got a ton of sacks because the OT aren't programmed correctly either even if you weren't moving the de out wide.

The bottom line to me is a game in 2010 should have a more realistic pocket than what we have seen in this series and this has gone undressed for far too long.

And as far as sacrificing game play improvements, how does the o-line vs d-line interaction not take precedence over them? It is the most basic part of the game that should be one of the highest priorities if not the highest. Alot of others things are moot if it is not done very well.

[DonkeyJote]

Quote: Originally Posted by mgoblue678

How is not as bad as I make it out to be? They run straight into the lineman, it doesn't even remotely resemble what should happen. I really don't want excuses from EA at this point, this issue has gone unaddressed for way too long now. If other games were able to replicate it, EA should be able to as well and if they can't that tells me they need a new engine. And once again you got a ton of sacks because the OT aren't programmed correctly either.

Other games? 2k is the MOST overrated video game of all time, line play included. The DE's took the right angles, but their feet were stuck in mud while they did it so a mobile qb could run right around them, easy. I could scramble with Byron Leftwich easily in that game.

Madden 10 did a much better (though still far from perfect) job of OL/DL play. And since an NCAA game, imo, normally resembles the previous year's Madden more than the previous year's NCAA, that's probably a good sign.

They probably do need a new engine to achieve totally realistic line play, but do you really want them to start over on an engine? How long until the new engine is where it should be? What if then the passing game is clunky, or it's to difficult to run the ball.

[mgoblue678]

Quote: Originally Posted by DonkeyJote

Other games? 2k is the MOST overrated video game of all time, line play included. The DE's took the right angles, but their feet were stuck in mud while they did it so a mobile qb could run right around them, easy. I could scramble with Byron Leftwich easily in that game. Madden 10 did a much better (though still far from perfect) job of OL/DL play. And since an NCAA game, imo, normally resembles the previous year's Madden more than the previous year's NCAA, that's probably a good sign. They probably do need a new engine to achieve totally realistic line play, but do you really want them to start over on an engine? How long until the new engine is where it should be? What if then the passing game is clunky, or it's to difficult to run the ball.

2k8 still had far better than line play than any NCAA this gen. I really don't see how that can be argued. As far as you saying Madden 10 had better line play than 2k8, I flat disagree with that as well due to the line play in 2k8 being far more dynamic even though it wasn't perfect either.

Even the number of animations in terms of line play in NCAA 2010 paled in comparison to 2k8. That even more than the defensive end issue bugged me about NCAA 10. The number of animations on the line were too limited, their is no sense of the line play being dynamic.

And nobody is expecting perfectly realistic line play either, but it should at least somewhat mimic or portray what we see in real life. At least in terms of basic fundamentals such as de's getting upfield for example.

And to be clear I was more referencing 2k8 in my previous posts when I mentioned 2k games because I thought it had better line play than 2k5.

[moylan1234]

CPU controlled DEs do run straight into the OT, but not user controlled. it's real easy to get pressure with a DE and you don't have to do the loop you can simply run straight up field and still make it around the OT

[mgoblue678]

Quote: Originally Posted by moylan55

CPU controlled DEs do run straight into the OT, but not user controlled. it's real easy to get pressure with a DE and you don't have to do the loop you can simply run straight up field and still make it around the OT

Once again that is because the OT aren't programmed properly either. If they got farther back in their drop as well as wider that wouldn't happen. The OT in the game are programmed to react to what the AI DE do which is to run straight into them, when a user takes a de and gets upfield that isn't what they are programmed to handle.

Just to be clear I am not saying this would be a easy fix since it would require the de's and ot's to have their programming modified, but there has been more than enough time to correct this or improve the o-line vs d-line interaction further during this generation. I really don't think they have made this as big of a priority as it should be.

[moylan1234]

oh yeah I agree OL definitely needs work just saying you don't have to completely do the DE loop to get pressure

[mgoblue678]

Quote: Originally Posted by moylan55

oh yeah I agree OL definitely needs work just saying you don't have to completely do the DE loop to get pressure

Once again sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying. Seems like we pretty much agree on this.

I don't think my first post was worded as well as it should have been giving the impression that I was saying looping was the only way.