3-4 Def.-Recruiting and AWR Ratings

[SickEm]

Anyone confirmed if Georgia has the base 3-4 defense in the game? Last I heard they were still 4-3....

[kehli]

Quote: Originally Posted by SickEm

Anyone confirmed if Georgia has the base 3-4 defense in the game? Last I heard they were still 4-3....

Haven't heard anything but if they used the 3-4 in the spring game there is about a 90% chance its in as a base defense for them.

[jbrew2411]

The biggest issue I have effects the 3-4 and 4-3 or any other D. The issues of how a players weight never changes. I hate when you have a 5* LB that weighs 195lbs and never gains any weight but improves to a 98 ovr. Seen that happen alot the past few years. I know high school kids are not all 245lbs when they enter college but the ones that are 195lbs do get put on a weigh program and bulk up. I coach high school kids and have seen 6'1" 200lb guys go off to college and come back for summer break and look like MMA fighters.
When you have players like my example then it makes it hard to recruit for any style D. I hope EA has added weight gain to progression or at least give us the option to edit weight in our dynasty. It would suck to have to edit a bunch of players but I had rather take the time to make things right then to have some 195lbs LB as the #1 recruit at his position that ends up as the top LB in the nation and still 195lbs. You should only be able to edit a players info and his looks and never be able to edit ratings.
The only way to fix the 4-3 to 3-4 player is to understand how each work. In the 4-3 I think EA has it down other then the preloaded recruits weight. In the 3-4 you still have 2 DT's. The NT as the position is called is the big run stopper (300lbs+). The 2nd DT is called a DE (290lbs-300lbs) but he is the pass rushing DT in the 4-3. The other DE (280lbs-300lbs) in the 3-4 is the run stopping DE in the 3-4. The pass rushing DE (250lbs-270lbs) in the 4-3 is now playing standing up and the 4th LB.
I think this could be an easy fix for EA to just fix the issue with a pass rushing DE to OLB in a 3-4 and a pass rushing DT to DE in the 3-4. This is not cheese but how it works in real life. Examples would be D. Ware, a pass rushing DE at Troy but a 3-4 OLB with Big D. Another would be Richard Seymore a pass rushing DT at UGA but a 3-4 DE with the Pat's and now Oakland.

**Also if UGA is set as 4-3 base then I know in 10 you could edit that before you start a dynasty.***

[paul allen]

Thanks for the replies, a lot of good ones...I think this is a good discussion and something I've thought about for awhile. A few points...

-Re: AWR drops when putting OLBs at DE and DEs at DT in Nickel and Dime...I just did this in the Demo (quickly) in formation subs...
--putting an OLB at DE reduced his OVR about 15 points, but when looking at the ratings, only the OVR actually changed, so either this is a bug where the other rating downgrades are not shown, or the OVR gets reduced but really it doesn't mean anything...the former is probably true...
--putting a DE at DT reduced his OVR about 8 points, and the same things happened with the ratings that were shown

---I hope that this is fixed in the retail version so we can see what is really going on with the rating changes.

-Re: Cheesing. I understand and appreciate the points that people have made, but as others have touched on, when running the 34 it is essential that OLBs be able to function as DEs on passing downs, and that DEs be able to function as DTs on passing downs.
--Looking at the Steelers for example, usually in the Dime, Harrison and Woodley (OLBs) play DE and Aaron Smith and Kiesel (DEs) play DT.
--Looking at ND this year, in the Dime, OLBs (Fleming and Smith, Neal, or Filer) will play DE, and the two starting DEs (Johnson and Lewis-Moore) will play DT.
--The rosters of 34 teams are built to function this way.

--If the game is not setup to allow for this at an acceptable level, then there is a disadvantage to running the 34 compared to the 43 (also considering that there are less 34 type recruits). For me, this won't matter as much b/c I'm playing a one player online dynasty, but if i were in a dynasty with other people I'd be more inclined to run a 43.

-Re: some fixes I'd like to see...1) add more 34 type recruits at OLB and DE, for example add more OLBs with pass rush ratings similar to pass rushing DEs, add more DEs with coverage ratings similar to run stopping OLBs (so that they can more easily be converted to OLB), and add more DE recruits that fit the 34 mold 2) reduce the drop in AWR rating when converting DTs to DE and DEs to OLB, 3) reduce the drop in ratings (yet to be determined what ratings actually drop) when putting OLBs at DE and DEs at DT in formation subs.

--other suggested fixes like separate ratings for the 43 and 34, and CPU generated comments regarding ability to play other positions, would be good too...

--also, in general and overall, I'd like to see more well rounded recruits so that position changes were easier to do. For example, WR recruits should have better pass coverage ratings (nothing great) so that they can more easily be converted to DB. Players often end up switching positions once they get to college, and I'd like that to be reflected more in the game.

-Re: changes in weight when switching positions. I'd like to see this too, but correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that weight has any effect on play, so this is probably not a high priority for EA. But, as I said, I'd like to see much better weight changing in the game too. For example, if weight DID matter, if you switch a LB to DE, he should gain weight and STR and possibly lose some ratings in SPD, AGI, and ACCEL...and there are a bunch of other things EA could do with this too...
--but even without making drastic changes, EA could definitely set the game up to better account for weight changes in general

[KentuckyJared20]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbrew2411

The biggest issue I have effects the 3-4 and 4-3 or any other D. The issues of how a players weight never changes. I hate when you have a 5* LB that weighs 195lbs and never gains any weight but improves to a 98 ovr. Seen that happen alot the past few years. I know high school kids are not all 245lbs when they enter college but the ones that are 195lbs do get put on a weigh program and bulk up. I coach high school kids and have seen 6'1" 200lb guys go off to college and come back for summer break and look like MMA fighters. When you have players like my example then it makes it hard to recruit for any style D. I hope EA has added weight gain to progression or at least give us the option to edit weight in our dynasty. It would suck to have to edit a bunch of players but I had rather take the time to make things right then to have some 195lbs LB as the #1 recruit at his position that ends up as the top LB in the nation and still 195lbs. You should only be able to edit a players info and his looks and never be able to edit ratings. The only way to fix the 4-3 to 3-4 player is to understand how each work. In the 4-3 I think EA has it down other then the preloaded recruits weight. In the 3-4 you still have 2 DT's. The NT as the position is called is the big run stopper (300lbs+). The 2nd DT is called a DE (290lbs-300lbs) but he is the pass rushing DT in the 4-3. The other DE (280lbs-300lbs) in the 3-4 is the run stopping DE in the 3-4. The pass rushing DE (250lbs-270lbs) in the 4-3 is now playing standing up and the 4th LB. I think this could be an easy fix for EA to just fix the issue with a pass rushing DE to OLB in a 3-4 and a pass rushing DT to DE in the 3-4. This is not cheese but how it works in real life. Examples would be D. Ware, a pass rushing DE at Troy but a 3-4 OLB with Big D. Another would be Richard Seymore a pass rushing DT at UGA but a 3-4 DE with the Pat's and now Oakland. **Also if UGA is set as 4-3 base then I know in 10 you could edit that before you start a dynasty.***

I don't know about you, but I know in '10 most of the players I noticed gained weight. Also, if you all are playing in a dynasty by yourself and using a 3-4, then why not create the prospects that you want if this bugs you so bad?

[jbrew2411]

The way it is now weight mean nothing but it should. It means something in the real game we all watch on Saturdays or Sundays. I just hate to see a player that gets better over 4 years but never gains weight. That 195lb LB I spoke of was a beast and set the season and career sack record. Sadly I was his #1 team didn't recruit him because he was 195lbs and I knew he would never change. I could not play like that.

[jbrew2411]

Quote: Originally Posted by KentuckyJared20

I don't know about you, but I know in '10 most of the players I noticed gained weight. Also, if you all are playing in a dynasty by yourself and using a 3-4, then why not create the prospects that you want if this bugs you so bad?

I have played the game since 98 and I have never seen a players weight increase. Weight means nothing in game but its just a thing for me.
I don't like creating players so I stay away from that. When I run a 3-4 I just use what I have. Since a players weight does not make a difference it does not matter.
I like to make the game as close to real as I can. Most of the good people here are that way as well. I don't know how you like to play? I would like to know if anyone else saw a player gain weight because when you export draft classes to Madden after a few years in you see a lot of under weight players.

[DakkoN]

Players gain weight.