Recruiting Progression and Stats are Broken

[rjsuperfly66]

This is the only problem I see with this game.

I have seen some people complain that they can't recruit great recruits at their small school.

However, this is perfect. Big schools get all the big time players. Your best players are mainly going to the best schools, unless they have an undying allegiance with a local school.

Why do you think teams like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Ohio St., etc are the best teams in the country year after year?

I'm recruiting with a 3-star school. Although I didn't get any 5-star recruits my first year, I got 6 4-star players and tons of 3-star recruits. The key to that is just finding players in your pipeline who are interested in your school before you start recruiting them.

However, the thing I would be interested in, is how many sleeper recruits are there? A lot of lower teams don't get top recruits, but rather develop recruits that fit into their system and then watch them blow up and become a superstar. Use Michael Crabtree as an example, and Scout lists him as a two-star recruit. If you get a two-star recruit, you should have the opportunity if developed right to blow up into a top player in the NCAA, but as it seems, two star players restricted to the 40s, 50s, and low 60s, barely ever making a starting lineup. Obviously this would only happen with a few players every few years, but still, it happens and its important that it happens in this game to give some of the smaller teams a chance, otherwise when the players on the current rosters leave, out go the current superstars and insert a team of mediocrity for the rest of the dynasty. However, as it appears, these players progress the same as others, making it impossible to turn them into superstars.

Likewise, not every 5 star recruit should be a top player in the NCAA. There are plenty of 5 and 4 star recruits that turn out as busts, some because they don't get playing time and regress, others because they don't fit into their system. IE - If you recruited a good receiver into a wishbone offense, he won't be utilized properly, and should not continue to be a top receiver. Know what I mean?

That, if anything, could be the problem with recruiting.

[sniperhare]

Another issue is it doesn't seem like you can recruit players to get to the level that the players on the teams this year are at. You can see players on these rosters that came to a school as 2 star recruits and in a year or two are rated in NCAA as 80+ OVR.

Try finding a generated recruit that's a 2 star and see what his ratings are as a RS Senior if you start him 3 or 4 years.

It's one of the issues with OVR ratings being tied to everything. I simmed and played a few seasons at Varsity on NCAA 10 and had a low rated QB win the Heisman because of his in game statistics. He won as a senior and didn't show up in Madden, but I made a QB sit on the bench for 4 years and he went into Madden as one of the top QB's simply because of his rating.

I would love for ratings to be hidden, and would love for in game statistics to be the judge of players. It's really needed for the drafts in Madden. Lack of production and statistics and low level of competition cause players to be drafted lower but that shouldn't mean that they're worse OVR.

I would love to scout for a QB in future Maddens and see what type of offense they ran, if they were injured, how did they perform in big games etc.

[rjsuperfly66]

Quote: Originally Posted by sniperhare

Another issue is it doesn't seem like you can recruit players to get to the level that the players on the teams this year are at. You can see players on these rosters that came to a school as 2 star recruits and in a year or two are rated in NCAA as 80+ OVR. Try finding a generated recruit that's a 2 star and see what his ratings are as a RS Senior if you start him 3 or 4 years. It's one of the issues with OVR ratings being tied to everything. I simmed and played a few seasons at Varsity on NCAA 10 and had a low rated QB win the Heisman because of his in game statistics. He won as a senior and didn't show up in Madden, but I made a QB sit on the bench for 4 years and he went into Madden as one of the top QB's simply because of his rating. I would love for ratings to be hidden, and would love for in game statistics to be the judge of players. It's really needed for the drafts in Madden. Lack of production and statistics and low level of competition cause players to be drafted lower but that shouldn't mean that they're worse OVR. I would love to scout for a QB in future Maddens and see what type of offense they ran, if they were injured, how did they perform in big games etc.

Thats how it should be.

And because of EA's reliance on difference offense styles, it should play a big role.

If you recruit a top running back into a pass heavy offense, chances are he won't improve much over four years, because he will barely be used.

However, if you recruit a ** running back into a wishbone offense and he plays significantly as a freshman putting up big numbers, he should improve more rapidly then the top running back being unutilized.

I just think the way the game sets up, it is nearly impossible for the smaller teams to compete after a few seasons, because they lose all their players in the 80s and 90s, and they are likely replaced by players in the 50s and 60s, who at best will improve to low to mid 70s. In the same sense, the big schools will continue to dominate with four and five star recruits, having players in the high 60s and low 70s who could be in their mid 80s by the time their graduate. Lets face it, a school like UTEP will never be able to recruit well with Texas and Texas Tech stealing any possible good players from the state, and they will get left with the scraps of 2 star players.

Unless those players who when recruited in the low 60s have a chance to jump to the 80s or 90s like they could potentially do in real-life, those teams don't stand a chance.

After all, the ratings in every new edition of the game are based off the stats from the season before, for the most part. Progression should be similar. I'm not saying a 60 rated guy who puts up 75 catches, 1500 yards, and 20 TDS should go all the way to the mid 90s, but maybe give him a 15-18 point bump. After all, how should that guy only improve by +2 or +4, while a ***** recruit who didn't play at all during the season will likely get the same result?

The other thing that doesn't make sense in recruiting is how heavy the game plays into actual position ratings... For one, those ratings for positions are simply projections. For example: In real life, there probably is not much difference in the high school careers of the #10 QB prospect (****), and the #35 QB Prospect (***). Both would have had excellent careers for their high school, and the only difference is that an ESPN scouting service thinks one is better than the other. In this game, the difference between those two players could potentially be 5-8 OVR points. The #10 prospect is probably between 71-69, and the #35 prospect probably between 66-64. It just leads to the fact that in recruiting, there are 0 sleeper players, at least from what I have seen. If a QB ranked #110 but can throw the ball with accuracy out of HS, there should at least be the potential when you recruit him that he could be just as good or not better than a QB ranked #40 overall, who might have gotten by just on his scrambling ability. Instead, the OVR difference between the two is dramatic.

[jbrew2411]

You should not worry about the overall rating unless you want some guy to move over to Madden after 4-5 years. I never play a player based on overall. I also will recruit a 3* player over a 4* player. Here are a few things I look for when recruiting.
1) Know my system and find players to fit that system. Example: I run a 3-4 base D so I look for DT's that have a C speed rating and move to DE. I look for quick DE's and move to OLB. I look for coverage LB's and move them to MLB if I need to. Same would go for the other side of the ball.
2) Never go after a player with a high star just because he has a higher star. Since I know what kind of players I want I only look at the skills that matter.

With these 2 philosophies I am able to find good players that I can win with. I always keep a dynasty going with Georgia and it is easy to load a team up with 5* & 4* players. But not every 5* & 4* player are a fit in what I like to do. This is what makes recruiting fun. You have to spend time looking for that 1 halfback that has the perfect balance of speed and pass catching ability. Or that DE that could make the move to OLB and not get you killed when he has to cover someone.

One of the best players I have ever recruited since playing the NCAA series (since 98) was a 3* QB. He had a B+ tac but only a C- tpw and was a 71ovr as a freshmen. I had recruited a 4* QB in the same class but he never saw the field unless it was mop-up time. He was perfect for my system. I ran a passing attack that featured a lot of short slants and crossing routs and dump offs to my backs. In 4 years I won a heismen, 2 QB awards, and was a 2 time All-American. I set records in TD's, completions, and yards for the school. This happened in 09's game and since then I have lived by my philosophy.

[rjsuperfly66]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbrew2411

You should not worry about the overall rating unless you want some guy to move over to Madden after 4-5 years. I never play a player based on overall. I also will recruit a 3* player over a 4* player. Here are a few things I look for when recruiting. 1) Know my system and find players to fit that system. Example: I run a 3-4 base D so I look for DT's that have a C speed rating and move to DE. I look for quick DE's and move to OLB. I look for coverage LB's and move them to MLB if I need to. Same would go for the other side of the ball. 2) Never go after a player with a high star just because he has a higher star. Since I know what kind of players I want I only look at the skills that matter. With these 2 philosophies I am able to find good players that I can win with. I always keep a dynasty going with Georgia and it is easy to load a team up with 5* & 4* players. But not every 5* & 4* player are a fit in what I like to do. This is what makes recruiting fun. You have to spend time looking for that 1 halfback that has the perfect balance of speed and pass catching ability. Or that DE that could make the move to OLB and not get you killed when he has to cover someone. One of the best players I have ever recruited since playing the NCAA series (since 98) was a 3* QB. He had a B+ tac but only a C- tpw and was a 71ovr as a freshmen. I had recruited a 4* QB in the same class but he never saw the field unless it was mop-up time. He was perfect for my system. I ran a passing attack that featured a lot of short slants and crossing routs and dump offs to my backs. In 4 years I won a heismen, 2 QB awards, and was a 2 time All-American. I set records in TD's, completions, and yards for the school. This happened in 09's game and since then I have lived by my philosophy.

I'm not having problems getting guys into my system that I like. With a *** team I had the 12th ranked recruiting class my first year.

Fact is, the small schools (which I don't necessarily have to worry about) are only going to get worse once their current 80s and 90 rated players leave. I dont care how good their system is, I'm confident my system of players in the 70s and 80s will destroy their team who is in the 50s and 60s more games than not.

It was almost like EA countered the problem of too many A+ schools in past generations of the game by making toning back player progression and initial recruiting overall.

[jbrew2411]

Quote: Originally Posted by rjsuperfly66

I'm not having problems getting guys into my system that I like. With a *** team I had the 12th ranked recruiting class my first year. Fact is, the small schools (which I don't necessarily have to worry about) are only going to get worse once their current 80s and 90 rated players leave. I dont care how good their system is, I'm confident my system of players in the 70s and 80s will destroy their team who is in the 50s and 60s more games than not. It was almost like EA countered the problem of too many A+ schools in past generations of the game by making toning back player progression and initial recruiting overall.

I missed what you were saying. I thought you were one of those teams that would end up with players rated lower then the low 70's. I have not played 11 enough to know how the progression will turn out. I have just finished my first year. I will say that I got the #6 overall player and he came in at a 77ovr. The #1 player was only a 80ovr. I just went through teams in the SEC and I didn't see any freshmen that had a huge overall. I did notice that Vandy's class was down right bad but they are always bad.
I see your concern though. I wish EA would change the rating system and give us true progression. I know they have to make the game for the casual fans then add things like the speed difference slider and levels of hardness for recruiting. I wish they would do away with overall and add more ratings that matter more. I also wish they would add a potential rating but make it where that is not the deciding factor on progression. Progression should be based on who hard the play works off the field and on field play. Like in real life you may have a kid that played at a small high school and may only be a 2* or 3* but has the potential to be a A+ player. Aaron Curry of Wake was a 2* maybe a 3* and due to his hard work and the potential to be better he was a top 5 pick in the NFL Draft.

To fix the problem you are having now could be to adjust the speed differience slider every time you play one of those teams. That way at least you want run them over so bad.

[miami2005734]

In year 3 with a dynasty with MSU and got a sleeper at WR he came in at 75 and was a *** recurit. Also in year 4 I got 2 **** WR who came in at the high 60s and one was the 4th in the country and 3 *** who came in at the low 70s. There are many sleepers in recuriting.

[sniperhare]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbrew2411

You should not worry about the overall rating unless you want some guy to move over to Madden after 4-5 years.

But that's the only reason I really play NCAA. I like having semi realistic draft classes and they have said that the draft imports are fixed this year, but we don't know if they really are.

It would be nice if the Madden devs release a blog now that NCAA is out to show if they did fix one of the problems in the game.