Shutting down the "progression is fine" arguments

[dalecooper]

And by shutting down, I mean of course that I will change no one's mind at all. But I think this is important enough to draw attention to it. Here are the most common arguments I'm seeing in favor of the new progression system and recruit ratings, and simple responses:

1. College recruits should have low awareness.

Incoming recruits, fine. But they should be capable of getting better than 60s-70s range. When the top awareness ratings in the NCAA are around 80, that tells me that something is wrong.

2. College players aren't as aware as pro players.

The awareness scale and other ratings are relative to THIS game. If you've ever played NCAA you know that these aren't absolute ratings. You especially know this if you've ever imported a draft class into Madden - ratings drop almost across the board, and no drafted player ever imports with a 99 AWR, even if he had one in NCAA.

Beyond that, look at the default roster - lots of players have awareness higher than 80.

3. They're just using more of the rating scale now.

That argument only works if a. the default roster reflects that logic (it doesn't); and b. the team grades reflect that logic also (they don't, as illustrated by the huge number of D- teams four years into a dynasty); and c. the top end of the scale is still used (in many individual ratings, it is not - if you check a wide range of ratings for different positions, you'll see that the high end of a lot of them is in the low 80s, leaving the top 15-20% of the scale untouched). They're not using more of the scale in all cases; frequently they seem to have just skewed the average rating lower and adjusted everyone else at that position accordingly.

4. It's all relative, so if everyone is worse the game plays the same.

Well for one, you have no proof of this - but to concede a counterpoint here, not many people have "proved" the other side either. It is subjective and hard to quantify. But there are known problems at certain positions that cannot be defended. Kickers can't kick, not even extra points. Wide receivers can't juke, making them much less useful in the open field. And we've known for a long time that QBs with low awareness are really bad, both in-game and (even more so) when their games are simmed. These effects are measurable and noticeable. Even if everything else is relative these are three key positions with problems ranging from annoying to game-damaging.

And in addition to all that, we don't know what's going to happen when these players are imported into Madden. It's not "all relative" when you're trying to import 55 OVR draft picks into a game full of pros rated according to EA's standard scale. Madden isn't out yet so we can't prove that this will be a problem, but what does your gut tell you?

[Gosens6]

5. Why do threads for either side of the argument keep popping up? Some people like it the way it is, others don't. Everyone complained that every team was a powerhouse last year because progression actually WAS broken, now that it's "fixed" people are saying they didn't fix it well enough and it's still broken.

Some people like the stretched ratings and think it plays fine. Let people who want to enjoy it, enjoy it, and people who want for it to be patched, let them wait. There are at least 4 threads I can count on the first two pages with each side of the argument. The same things keep being said, and nothing is getting anywhere.

Yes we get their are stretched ratings and people don't seem to understand how they work because the default rosters are so overly inflated the first few years of dynasty are messed up. Yes some people want elite players every year, others want them to be rare. For some reason people think taking a team like FIU or EMU should take less than 8 years to build into a powerhouse, when in reality these teams will probably NEVER become a powerhouse, guys can't just accept that.

On the other side of the fence, yes the kickers ratings are horrible and it becomes almost impossible to nail 30 yard field goals, this is what the kick power slider is for though. Yeah, some WR's can't juke or spin, but how often do you see a WR juke or spin? The Percy Harvins and Jermey Macklins and DeSean Jacksons are rare, and they just have blazing speed.

There are enough praise progression and enough I hate progression threads going around, and honestly the more that are being made, the more the fence will be divided.

In my personal opinion, absolutely nothing is wrong with it. You still get some elite players, and the good schools stay good (most of the time) and the bad schools stay bad. Just like they have been IRL. You tell me, how often has EMU or FIU or Wyoming or any of these bad schools made a BCS bowl? or any important bowl for that matter? People don't realize this when they get mad that they can't recruit 4 or 5* players with a bad team, this is how it happens in reality. You people wanted it, now you got it. Why the complaints.

/end rant.

[Strummer101er]

Progression to me is ****ed for one simple reason: Player ratings don't stay in line with the parameters set in the default rosters.

End of story.

[feeq14]

I think its time for a progression discussion sticky.


And I apologize for my role in this...

[Strummer101er]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gosens6

Yeah, some WR's can't juke or spin, but how often do you see a WR juke or spin?

That statement alone invalidates your "progression is fine" argument.

Do you watch football on Saturdays and Sundays? If not, maybe you can get a job at Tiburon.

[MSU ILLEST]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gosens6

In my personal opinion, absolutely nothing is wrong with it. You still get some elite players, and the good schools stay good (most of the time) and the bad schools stay bad. Just like they have been IRL. You tell me, how often has EMU or FIU or Wyoming or any of these bad schools made a BCS bowl? or any important bowl for that matter? People don't realize this when they get mad that they can't recruit 4 or 5* players with a bad team, this is how it happens in reality. You people wanted it, now you got it. Why the complaints. /end rant.

Those teams may not make it in real life often, but people play the game to make their team better. It's pointless to become one of the teams and attempt to make them better if you know right away that it will never happen due to a broken system. Some lower teams do have upsets and beat better teams. This game does not reflect that at all in the dynasty mode. Other than that, I like the game.

The only reason you are tired of seeing these threads is because you feel the game is fine. Everyone is entitled to share their opinion in a respectful manner whether you want to read it or not.

I also agree with the poster that suggested making a sticky. That would decrease the clutter of this subject.

[dan_457]

I hate the progression as it is, but I'm getting tired of discussing it so damn much, but it seems like i can't help but argue when someone says they honestly don't think somethings wrong.

[Gosens6]

Quote: Originally Posted by MSU ILLEST

Those teams may not make it in real life often, but people play the game to make their team better. It's pointless to become one of the teams and attempt to make them better if you know right away that it will never happen due to a broken system. Some lower teams do have upsets and beat better teams. This game does not reflect that at all in the dynasty mode. Other than that, I like the game. The only reason you are tired of seeing these threads is because you feel the game is fine. Everyone is entitled to share their opinion in a respectful manner whether you want to read it or not. I also agree with the poster that suggested making a sticky. That would decrease the clutter of this subject.

If the system simulates real life (Making bad teams stay bad) isn't that what people want? Don't people want a simulation of real life in their games?

And also, i'm tired of seeing the thread on BOTH sides of the argument like I stated. One thread is enough for people to hate, or love progression. It has nothing to do with me liking it, or hating it. There are just too many threads on it and the arguments never change.

I agree with whoever said we need one sticky