Where Did The Speed Go?

[Card-me]

So I just spent like 45 minutes writing a response with stats, ratings, etc, and then lost it. FML.

To summarize, in year 5 of my Louisville dynasty, almost all of my linebackers have speed ratings similar to my linebackers and receivers, and higher acceleration numbers. It's just not realistic. Even guys like Mark Ingram and Toby Gerhart can outrun linebackers in the open field in real life, but not in this game.

The problem is that the game is trying to cover up poor zone defense and positioning techniques with speed for the linebackers. It balances the passing game (somewhat, anyway), but it kills the running game. How many times have you seen back side linebackers or defensive ends run down running backs in the back field in this game? How often do you see it in real life without it being caused by good contain on the other side of the back? Think about it.

And again, it's not even the variety that bothers me, I love the variety of players in this game. Some guys are speed, some aren't, and that's fine. But because of the issues I just mentioned, if you want a guy that can really break away from the defense, you need a really fast guy, not just a generic "speed" guy (which usually still only equates to A- or even B+ ratings), and there are not very many of those in this game. Even if you can find some, then you have to pray you're in their top 5 at the beginning of the season, or you're just wasting your time. So what happens is that even if you want speed guys, it's not as easy as just saying "Well, I'm going to go get a speed guy," because there may not even be one that's interested, and it might be that way for several seasons in a row. That's not realistic either. Every team in real college football has guys that are fast and can get good separation, at every level, whether it be mid-major, BCS, or even FCS (Appalachian State anybody?... their QB is an NFL receiver now for goodness sake). In this game, you end up with a handful of speed guys that the top spread teams in the nation fight over, and everybody else gets the scraps, and the guys you end up getting can't outrun the superman linebackers with their inflated ratings.

And don't get me started on DBs. I had two 3 star CBs one season that I had to settle for (because I couldn't sign any of the guys at the top of my list) that had SPD ratings in the mid 80s and ACC ratings in the low 70s. I absolutely got ripped apart on defense that season. Three star CBs should not ever be getting outrun by 3 start middle linebackers. Ever.

[maddguuns]

Quote: Originally Posted by yoda43

Love this thread, and love everyone's arguments...very good stuff. The best RB in the country last year was Mark Ingram

Not even close...the best back in the country last year was clearly Toby Gerhardt and he got a raw deal in the Heisman voting!

As for speed ratings, I would say the number of 90+ speed guys across the board are slightly too low. I do thing the ratings are more realistic, but tuned slightly below realistic on the whole. I played college football and was recruited by quite a few major schools. As a HS senior I had 4.4 speed. By the end of my Frosh year I was 4.3-4.34 consistently. I was the 8th fastest Frosh on my team that season and I went JUCO.

That being said, a recruit in this game that is timed at 4.4 or lower should not come into college with lower than a 90 speed rating...I have seen many WR's with a sub 4.4 in this game come in with 86 or lower speed and accel. This is unrealistic.

Also, I really believe many of you are not giving the 2500+ yearly DI recruits enough credit. I ran a 4.4 and was 8th fastest on a JUCO team made up of non-qualifiers. I wasn't even top 100 in my NIKE running camp before college and wasn't even the fastest DB on my HS all-star team.

Today, most schools bring in at least a few sub 4.4 guys. UF - about a dozen; Akron - maybe 1...but you get the point. I've been there in real life, and this game is not realistic in the overall number. 5* HB, probably not a sub 4.4 guy; but 10 of the top 12 WR's and DB's will be, guaranteed.

[NikB13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Card-me

So I just spent like 45 minutes writing a response with stats, ratings, etc, and then lost it. FML. To summarize, in year 5 of my Louisville dynasty, almost all of my linebackers have speed ratings similar to my linebackers and receivers, and higher acceleration numbers. It's just not realistic. Even guys like Mark Ingram and Toby Gerhart can outrun linebackers in the open field in real life, but not in this game. The problem is that the game is trying to cover up poor zone defense and positioning techniques with speed for the linebackers. It balances the passing game (somewhat, anyway), but it kills the running game. How many times have you seen back side linebackers or defensive ends run down running backs in the back field in this game? How often do you see it in real life without it being caused by good contain on the other side of the back? Think about it. And again, it's not even the variety that bothers me, I love the variety of players in this game. Some guys are speed, some aren't, and that's fine. But because of the issues I just mentioned, if you want a guy that can really break away from the defense, you need a really fast guy, not just a generic "speed" guy (which usually still only equates to A- or even B+ ratings), and there are not very many of those in this game. Even if you can find some, then you have to pray you're in their top 5 at the beginning of the season, or you're just wasting your time. So what happens is that even if you want speed guys, it's not as easy as just saying "Well, I'm going to go get a speed guy," because there may not even be one that's interested, and it might be that way for several seasons in a row. That's not realistic either. Every team in real college football has guys that are fast and can get good separation, at every level, whether it be mid-major, BCS, or even FCS (Appalachian State anybody?... their QB is an NFL receiver now for goodness sake). In this game, you end up with a handful of speed guys that the top spread teams in the nation fight over, and everybody else gets the scraps, and the guys you end up getting can't outrun the superman linebackers with their inflated ratings. And don't get me started on DBs. I had two 3 star CBs one season that I had to settle for (because I couldn't sign any of the guys at the top of my list) that had SPD ratings in the mid 80s and ACC ratings in the low 70s. I absolutely got ripped apart on defense that season. Three star CBs should not ever be getting outrun by 3 start middle linebackers. Ever.

This is what i mean. It is time after time i get caught by a linebacker or even a lineman from behind. I understand this happens every so often, but every time i run a sweep out of shotgun.... I love how real this game feels dont get me wrong. This is BY FAR the best NCAA or football game on next gen for me. But something is always going to be wrong for some people and this year for me its the almost ridiculous ACC and AGL rating for most skill recruits. Maybe im just seeing things but i find it hard for m to find LaMichael James or Kenjon Barner (as an example) type player W/O creating them.

[PocketScout]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

I agree with these posts wholeheartedly.

Quote: Originally Posted by maddguuns

Not even close...the best back in the country last year was clearly Toby Gerhardt and he got a raw deal in the Heisman voting! As for speed ratings, I would say the number of 90+ speed guys across the board are slightly too low. I do thing the ratings are more realistic, but tuned slightly below realistic on the whole. I played college football and was recruited by quite a few major schools. As a HS senior I had 4.4 speed. By the end of my Frosh year I was 4.3-4.34 consistently. I was the 8th fastest Frosh on my team that season and I went JUCO. That being said, a recruit in this game that is timed at 4.4 or lower should not come into college with lower than a 90 speed rating...I have seen many WR's with a sub 4.4 in this game come in with 86 or lower speed and accel. This is unrealistic. Also, I really believe many of you are not giving the 2500+ yearly DI recruits enough credit. I ran a 4.4 and was 8th fastest on a JUCO team made up of non-qualifiers. I wasn't even top 100 in my NIKE running camp before college and wasn't even the fastest DB on my HS all-star team. Today, most schools bring in at least a few sub 4.4 guys. UF - about a dozen; Akron - maybe 1...but you get the point. I've been there in real life, and this game is not realistic in the overall number. 5* HB, probably not a sub 4.4 guy; but 10 of the top 12 WR's and DB's will be, guaranteed.

In the NFL combine over the last 2 years only 8 players have ran sub 4.4 40s. These are the best that college has to offer, it's kinda hard to believe that there are just tons if kids coming from high school with true sub 4.4 40s when only 8 guys have done it in the NFL combine the past 2 seasons.

[willIam9387]

I still stick by my view that NCAA IMO mirrors the real life spd of RBs, WRs accurately. But to me the real problem lies with Accel and it's relationship to the Spd rating of players with a speed rating of above 90 especially. When I sort by forty speed in teh beginning of the offseason I tend to see a nice distribution of forty times. Like many people posting in this thread, I'm a big proponent of speed, so I normally target a lot of burners, especially at the Rb and Wr position. The majority players I target at skill positions have A or A- speed, but what I find interesting are the ones who have C to C+ accelerations and still manage to run at 4.30-4.42 forty like they are reported to have run. IMO, if you run a sub 4.4 forty your acceleration has to be as high as your speed, because the forty basically measures how quickly you can get up to top speed. To me it's impossible, for a player with 95 speed and 70 accel to have a 4.40 forty. Maybe, if the player sprinted twenty yards, got up to top speed, and then ran a forty, but these players when you average their speed and acceleration are basically on the same speed level of a linebacker. And would a coach honestly ever recruit a player like this. Yeah coach I swear I have 4.4 speed, I just have to run forty yards before you time it. By that time, he would have been already plastered by a linebacker across the middle and taken off the field by a cart.

Speed and acceleration should not differ by more than at least five points. If you have the speed, obviously the acceleration is there to go with it. Great acceleration is necessary for great speed to occur, can great speed occur without great acceleration, maybe in NCAA 11, but it's sure not logical. What locomotion has done is seem to make this huge difference between speed and acceleration, when in reality the difference between speed and acceleration is very minute, but's it's minute differences have great implications. This has resulted in the huge differences between players Spd and acceleration, which is not realistic. I still agree the spd distribution is accurate, but when acceleration ratings fluctuate from recruit to recruit and you start seeing recruits with 95 spd and 72 accel, vice versa, you start to wonder whether NCAA's dev team has taken a basic course in logic.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by PocketScout

In the NFL combine over the last 2 years only 8 players have ran sub 4.4 40s. These are the best that college has to offer, it's kinda hard to believe that there are just tons if kids coming from high school with true sub 4.4 40s when only 8 guys have done it in the NFL combine the past 2 seasons.

Yeah, I'm sorry if I offend that guy, and I know that he believes that what he is saying is true, but I feel like there is a .0000001 % chance of what he said being accurate.

[Mtneer08]

Quote: Originally Posted by willIam9387

I still stick by my view that NCAA IMO mirrors the real life spd of RBs, WRs accurately. But to me the real problem lies with Accel and it's relationship to the Spd rating of players with a speed rating of above 90 especially. When I sort by forty speed in teh beginning of the offseason I tend to see a nice distribution of forty times. Like many people posting in this thread, I'm a big proponent of speed, so I normally target a lot of burners, especially at the Rb and Wr position. The majority players I target at skill positions have A or A- speed, but what I find interesting are the ones who have C to C+ accelerations and still manage to run at 4.30-4.42 forty like they are reported to have run. IMO, if you run a sub 4.4 forty your acceleration has to be as high as your speed, because the forty basically measures how quickly you can get up to top speed. To me it's impossible, for a player with 95 speed and 70 accel to have a 4.40 forty. Maybe, if the player sprinted twenty yards, got up to top speed, and then ran a forty, but these players when you average their speed and acceleration are basically on the same speed level of a linebacker. And would a coach honestly ever recruit a player like this. Yeah coach I swear I have 4.4 speed, I just have to run forty yards before you time it. By that time, he would have been already plastered by a linebacker across the middle and taken off the field by a cart. Speed and acceleration should not differ by more than at least five points. If you have the speed, obviously the acceleration is there to go with it. Great acceleration is necessary for great speed to occur, can great speed occur without great acceleration, maybe in NCAA 11, but it's sure not logical. What locomotion has done is seem to make this huge difference between speed and acceleration, when in reality the difference between speed and acceleration is very minute, but's it's minute differences have great implications. This has resulted in the huge differences between players Spd and acceleration, which is not realistic. I still agree the spd distribution is accurate, but when acceleration ratings fluctuate from recruit to recruit and you start seeing recruits with 95 spd and 72 accel, vice versa, you start to wonder whether NCAA's dev team has taken a basic course in logic.

I cant believe you think speed and acceleration should not differ by more than 5 points. That really is a dumb statement. Let me give you one example of a favorite college player of mine. Noel Devine....he has one of the best bursts/acceleration of any player I've ever seen (including NFL) but when it comes to running past 15 yards he is not that fast. He has got caught from behind in a lot of his long runs but that first 10 yards of his will beat anyone.

What bothers me in this game is so many linebackers have acceleration in the 90's and a lot are 99 by the time they are seniors.

[PocketScout]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

Yeah, I'm sorry if I offend that guy, and I know that he believes that what he is saying is true, but I feel like there is a .0000001 % chance of what he said being accurate.

lol, sorry wasn't trying to include you in that one, I had screwed up and tagged you on the multi-quote on accident.