Custom Playbooks = Online Cheesing

[Roggie]

Quote: Originally Posted by MGK

I applaud you for not jumping to conclusions, but I have to wonder why you decided to respond to my post if you avoid playing online. Use receiver spotlight and defensive hot routes to combat repetitive playcalling. Again, if you consider not playing into the hands of the defense by choosing plays with a high rate of success "cheese", then I am the King of Queso. The object of the game is to exploit your opponents weaknesses to get the ball in the endzone, bottom line. Of course not. That is why it pays to actually play a skilled opponent who forces one to mix up the D. "Cheesers" never prosper unless they play against a poor defense. Against a respectable user, they will be forced to mix up the playcalling. When I play users who try this garbage, I obliterate them. If I come across a player who does not play realistically, he does not have success against my offense or defense. And, in the end, it just comes down to personal opinion. I find it rewarding to shut down a user's perceived money play(s). You enjoy playing your favorite position on defense. I can respect your difference in opinion.

I apologize. 2 am after 10 hours of work, and I came off as slightly harsh. Your points are valid, and reading it that way, I understand the thought process. I'm not talking someone running HB Power 4 straight plays. I'm talking people who only run plays that exploit the game AI as cheesers. If I notice a guy has a weak left side of his D line, I'll run left on all of my running plays. His DTs are bad? Run up the middle. Power I form is working? I'll pick run plays out of it nonstop. That's not taking advantage of a "money" play. It's taking advantage of an opponent's weakness, which is real football, and what it sounds like you do.

[poopoop]

Quote: Originally Posted by MGK

Use receiver spotlight and defensive hot routes to combat repetitive playcalling.

This works but only to an extent. Especially when you consider the possibility of your opponent running a hurry up and/or hiking the ball early in the playclock. You're dealing with a small window of time and it's not necessarily long enough to adjust multiple things. I guess you can argue this is realistic, but in real life you don't have to make multiple presnap adjustments to fix defensive plays that don't work and cover for poor AI.

Quote: Originally Posted by MGK

Again, if you consider not playing into the hands of the defense by choosing plays with a high rate of success "cheese", then I am the King of Queso. The object of the game is to exploit your opponents weaknesses to get the ball in the endzone, bottom line.

True but there's a distinct difference between exploiting holes in the game and exploiting your opponent. No one will begrudge you for doing the latter, but the former is absolutely cheese. Here's an extreme example to illustrate my point. If I set up a nano blitz who am I exploiting?

---

I've never played against you and have no idea how you play. But the issue with people who cheese is they constantly exploit holes in the game then mistakenly attribute it to skill and exploiting their opponent. This is why this argument is so complex because we constantly have to differentiate between the two and there's a lot of gray area at times. If this game did a better job simulating football we wouldn't have to.

Playing against someone is not a true representation of two coaches having a chess match and trying to out-scheme each other. It's more like two players competing to see who's best at taking advantage of the often messed up gameplay.

This game at it's most competitive levels comes down to who cheeses the best, play someone ranked in the top 100 and they will almost guaranteed be a cheeser.

[frankrizzo380]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

I have been looking for more info about online communities ever since it was mention as a new feature being added to Madden 12. Does NCAA 11 already have this and if so, how do they work? I would appreciate any info about anyone might have. I was thinking it might be something that allows gamers to build player communities that have some kind of member invite/password and/or multiple commissioner controlled system similar to online franchise. Maybe slightly different from online franchise by actually allowing whomever starts the community to grant community admin control to various members to basically be community moderators. Then allowing community members to seek ranked, unranked and online franchise opponents, strictly from within that community. I even started a thread asking about it in the Madden forum. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...mmunities.html On topic, I don't know about NCAA 12 exactly but Chase B reported there is a 50/50 chance that custom playbooks make it online this year for Madden 12. He was told EA is trying to work out a bug fix to allow them online. Like others have said, I don't really see custom playbooks making whatever issues people have with the online play of others, any worse. I have my own personal beliefs about what can be done to deter unrealistic play calling by EA developers. If they would just tune existing tools in their games, like penalties, fumbles, ratings and adaptive AI to better simulate real NCAA/NFL risk/reward, or at least provide a optional NCAA/NFL simulation setting that does, that would minimize the success of unrealistic play. The lack of success from unrealistic play would minimize the use without directly restricting anyone's individual play style. This would bring countless numbers of gamers that have abandoned online play, back, IMO. Until that day comes, I would be satisfied with an online community feature similar to the one I described.

Try looking around that website posted at the end of my post its also has some info at the end of the video, its a great site to start as far as online community/dynasties

[cliffgator]

Quote: Originally Posted by MGK

I hate when people complain about cheesing. If you can't stop a "money" play after it's been used against you several times, you're not very good.

HIT DOG MAKES NOSE (****ING CHEESIER)

[floppychulo]

It just seems like no matter what a person does he's a "cheeser". I stopped playing online because I got tired of all the whining. If I wanted to hear all that whining and crying, I'd stop by a day care center.

If you run the ball the whole game it's cheese. If you pass all the time it's cheese. If you use a certain play it's cheese. So in essence if your opponent doesn't like the way you call your game, you're a cheeser.

To all the people who say they want a "realistic" game of football. Define "realistic", but don't forget to remember it's a game for goodness sakes. A game!! How much realism do you expect to receive? Good grief!

[poopoop]

Quote: Originally Posted by floppychulo

It just seems like no matter what a person does he's a "cheeser". I stopped playing online because I got tired of all the whining. If I wanted to hear all that whining and crying, I'd stop by a day care center. If you run the ball the whole game it's cheese. If you pass all the time it's cheese. If you use a certain play it's cheese. So in essence if your opponent doesn't like the way you call your game, you're a cheeser. To all the people who say they want a "realistic" game of football. Define "realistic", but don't forget to remember it's a game for goodness sakes. A game!! How much realism do you expect to receive? Good grief!

I agree that some people do whine too much and just call anything they don't like cheese.

Cheese is just at it's core playing unrealistically. So if we can't expect NCAA to play realistically because it's just a game, don't be surprised if you're routinely called a cheeser. It's mainly just frustration with the game and the way it plays. There are people who try to squeeze as much realism out of this game as possible even though it's a huge chore a lot of the time. Which means doing things like mixing up playcalling even though it isn't really necessary on this game.

As for defining realistic I think it's pretty obvious what that means. It's wanting the game to be as true to the real life game as possible.

[floppychulo]

Quote: Originally Posted by poopoop

I agree that some people do whine too much and just call anything they don't like cheese. Cheese is just at it's core playing unrealistically. So if we can't expect NCAA to play realistically because it's just a game, don't be surprised if you're routinely called a cheeser. It's mainly just frustration with the game and the way it plays. There are people who try to squeeze as much realism out of this game as possible even though it's a huge chore a lot of the time. Which means doing things like mixing up playcalling even though it isn't really necessary on this game. As for defining realistic I think it's pretty obvious what that means. It's wanting the game to be as true to the real life game as possible.

I get what you are saying. IMO, some people's expectations of realism in a video game are way too high. It's too the point where EA should build a survey into online play. That way before each game is started each player can check off some of the things he/she will whine about off the break. Then the realism folks can be happy, and the people who understand that their pixilated linebacker isn't gonna be able to do what a 'backer does in real life won't have to listen to all the complaining.

[poopoop]

That's basically what happens now though. The people who don't care will just play ranked games and not worry about it. The people who want to play sim will splinter off into little "sim" communities where there are established rules.

You still occasionally get some idiot who plays a ranked game where anything goes, then wants to whine about cheese. Or the cheeser who decides to join a sim community and piss a bunch of people off.

I disagree that expectations are too high though. Obv the game will never be 100% realistic but the goal should be getting as close as they can. It's safe to say this game hasn't done this, so I think it's reasonable for people to demand more.