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Athlete all Ds

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Old 02-09-2012, 03:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by speedtrucker
... do you not see what you just said yourself?

if he spent time back at QB he would probably get it back. meaning that he would have lost some skill.

I'm in agreement with the few post after about maybe not a giant loss of points and an Athlete having 2 positions they could choose from or even switch during off seasons. an ATH that could play CB or WR doesn't need "cover" skills to either be an 85 or drop to 65 depending on the position choice, but maybe that 85 will begin to drop each year that they play WR. so by his senior season at WR his "cover" skills are now a 73(or whatever) because he never played CB, his tackling skills would drop over time much like his WR skills would grow over time. I'm not saying he would get slower or whatever just because he picked CB over WR, but certain skills would degrade over time due to lack of use.

Cusegirl made 2 strong points about ATHs coming in with the potential for multiple positions, certain ELITE skills would define their potential like the ATH has ELITE skills that would translate to a decent WR or above average CB. upon position selection said player would then begin his "advancement" & "degradation" of skills that fall into either position.
Not 16pts in one off season!!!! That's insane!!!!!! IDC how u put it no one will not degrade as much as you guys say they would.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #34
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Re: Athlete all Ds

Cusegirl and Speedtrucker are making perfect sense..I guess it'd be easier to understand if you could relate to it yourself. Not necessarily a position change but even a change of sports could make you lose skill somewhere in order to be better at something else.

No one is saying that Randle-El wouldn't be able to 'get it back' at QB. Problem is, it would take too much time because he'd be fighting against his age (he's 32). Yes, there are older QB's in the NFL. But they are maintaining their physical talent, not trying to recondition themselves. And I'm sure, if he ever did successfully convert, his speed would have degressed to the likes of Donovan McNabb by that time. There's so many factors as to why a person can't be good at everything.

So to translate this to a video game...Yes, raw talent such as speed shouldn't be touched. Maybe (not always) if a WR moves to being a pocket passer they may lose a step after 2 or 3 years, but for the sake of EA and this game, it'd be better untouched. Acquired skills/attributes should decline. If a WR converts to a DB, their route running will look raw after a while. If a DB converts to a WR, there is a high possibility that the WR will not be able to tackle and cover as good.

A lot of WR's in the NFL and NCAA have played DB in college at some point in time. If they really are that amazing of an athlete, why is it I have yet to see Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed getting hit sticked on an interception return by a WR that used to be an Athlete?

I'm getting the notion that some people believe that every Athlete is built like Deion Sanders. An athlete converts to a position because they have defined what craft they want to master. In exchange they leave many acquired skills behind. The last athlete (as in entering the draft as an Athlete, not labeled as a posiiton) I can recall being respectably drafted is Devin Hester. And you see how he's doing deciding to play Offense or Defense. The amount of loss and gain of certain skill sets changes on a case by case basis. If everyone were superman, I'd recruit nothing but Athletes as coach, and make the most exotic defensive and offensive schemes you'd ever see.

A quote you hear a lot is 10% Physical, 90% Mental. Mental is not raw talent. Mental is learned. Mental is the reason why players are good, and I whole heartedly believe that it starts in the mind. That 90% tells you what you can and can't do with your other 10% and puts you in a position to make plays.

Anyone without a physical disorder (10%) can ride a bike. The issue is learning how to (90%).

Last edited by whodat7; 02-09-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:07 PM   #35
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Re: Athlete all Ds

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Originally Posted by whodat7
I'm getting the notion that some people believe that every Athlete is built like Deion Sanders. An athlete converts to a position because they have defined what craft they want to master. In exchange they leave many acquired skills behind.
There's a reason some people say Devin Hester is overrated. He's crazy fast and agile. But he can't cover (even tho he was D-back in college), and he's not a good pro receiver either (even tho he played that position as well in college). He did not refine the receiving skills needed (catching passes, route running, finding open spaces to sit it for short passes) nor did he refine his coverage skills (using his hands at the line of scrimmage, forcing receivers into a particular area, playing physical without getting flagged, baiting the QB into bad throws).

Most athletes don't play like Deion or Hester or Chris Gamble or Charles Woodson. They're like Troy Smith (high school athlete converted into a QB), they did alot of things in high school and the coach says "it looks like this is what you do best, so we're gonna work on that".
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #36
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Re: Athlete all Ds

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Originally Posted by blkrptnt819
Not that much that quick. Nobody drops that much in one offseason. Until I have control over what my team works on I really don't like the idea degression because it will be in areas I find important though EA may not.
Even if you have control on what your team works on what would you do? If given an hour, spend 30 minutes on WR drills with your DB so he doesn't lose his catching ability as much? Or the entire hour to train your DB so that he does his job better than anyone else - not give up a pass and even be effective stopping/deterring outside runs.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:55 PM   #37
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Even if you have control on what your team works on what would you do? If given an hour, spend 30 minutes on WR drills with your DB so he doesn't lose his catching ability as much? Or the entire hour to train your DB so that he does his job better than anyone else - not give up a pass and even be effective stopping/deterring outside runs.
Catching is an instinct. Some ppl will be able to catch regardless where they play. Have u ever heard some ppl play D because they couldn't catch or O because they were scared to tackle? So if I can catch and I choose to play D I should drop off 20 pts on catching? NO! Your skills will dimish a SMALL amount but they way yall are talking yall want a high school qb who came with 80tha 80thp to drop off to 40's after an offseason. It does not happen like that. They may diminish over time but they will always be able to throw a good ball that if switched back to being a QB have little problem being effective.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:09 PM   #38
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Re: Athlete all Ds

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Originally Posted by blkrptnt819
Catching is an instinct. Some ppl will be able to catch regardless where they play. Have u ever heard some ppl play D because they couldn't catch or O because they were scared to tackle? So if I can catch and I choose to play D I should drop off 20 pts on catching? NO! Your skills will dimish a SMALL amount but they way yall are talking yall want a high school qb who came with 80tha 80thp to drop off to 40's after an offseason. It does not happen like that. They may diminish over time but they will always be able to throw a good ball that if switched back to being a QB have little problem being effective.
I'm pretty sure this wasn't said and I actually believe people agreed with you in terms of skills dropping off more slowly, but they shouldn't remain the same...that's just laughable that a person who hasn't done something in awhile would be able to do it at the same high level immediately (think Rick Ankiel in baseball...I highly doubt he would be able to pitch with the same effectiveness he used to before he transitioned into the outfield, but I bet he is a much better outfielder now than he was years ago)

And from my own personal experience, catching is very much so a skill which is very much teachable and can progress/diminish (I know this because I got much better after practicing it a lot in high school as I was naturally a DB, but my coaches insisted on me to transitioning to WR because of my speed, which was important in our offense and now lol...I can't catch anything to save my life), some people are more naturally talented at it than others (but that's how it is for all skills)
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:20 PM   #39
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Re: Athlete all Ds

Alright. In the game a drop of 40 thp or tha may seem like a lot, but not when you put it on a real scale. In reality, if a guy stops playing QB, to your average person he will still be able to throw and be good at it. But he will no longer be a competitive QB in College at the D1 Level. Therefore, 40 is even a realistic drop in some instances.

Back to Randle-El, I'm sure if you have a catch with him in person you'd think he was NFL ready. But compared to NFL QB's and Defenses, he would not be able to make an impact as a true QB.

The only way I can support your argument is assuming that an Athlete remains an athlete. Once an athlete decides on a position their skill diminish at a rate that directly correlates with time. The rate is what varies from player to player, but over time it is safe to assume that 9 out of 10 athletes will eventually lose what they don't use.

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Old 02-09-2012, 05:37 PM   #40
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Re: Athlete all Ds

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Originally Posted by TheNumber35
I'm pretty sure this wasn't said and I actually believe people agreed with you in terms of skills dropping off more slowly, but they shouldn't remain the same...that's just laughable that a person who hasn't done something in awhile would be able to do it at the same high level immediately (think Rick Ankiel in baseball...I highly doubt he would be able to pitch with the same effectiveness he used to before he transitioned into the outfield, but I bet he is a much better outfielder now than he was years ago)

And from my own personal experience, catching is very much so a skill which is very much teachable and can progress/diminish (I know this because I got much better after practicing it a lot in high school as I was naturally a DB, but my coaches insisted on me to transitioning to WR because of my speed, which was important in our offense and now lol...I can't catch anything to save my life), some people are more naturally talented at it than others (but that's how it is for all skills)
I'm getting the feeling that no matter how many good examples are being proposed he keeps going back to some random 16pt drop at the exact moment a decision is made. if NCAA12 is doing that, I disagree with them.

this is turning into a lost cause because the examples are being either skewed or disregarded.

as to your point, I'll use myself in Baseball. I was a prospect pitcher and shortstop early on in highschool, could throw a decent fastball and a nasty curve. a shoulder injury derailed my pitching future, I could still throw hard and with control but not without pain. I moved to the outfield for the last 2 years, went to college and started struggling with my bat... thought about pitching again but guess what... fastball had lost about 8mph and my slot for a curve dropped about 4 inches to get any sort of break, which basically meant that a decent batter could spot my curve coming before I even released the pitch. I had let my pitching ability slide to the point where against competition it was useless, against joe schmo they aren't going to see the difference between my pitches. so while my velocity didn't drop my skill as a pitcher had.
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