A Reason Football is tough to make Sim

[Tweeg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bama_Fan_79

I think some of these folks who think so highly of the old gen games should go back and play them again.

I do. Every summer I play 'that game' and get a real sense of disappointment because it's been one more year without getting a game that feels as good.

[PowerofRed25]

Quote: Originally Posted by thedudedominick

I always wonder to myself if football is too complex of a sport to ever be represented in a video game that would please all of us "sim" players. There are so many little details with football, complex offenses and defenses, as well as tons of different gear. Think about Basketball, Baseball, and even Soccer. Baseball itself doesn't change year to year. You don't have to worry about complete system changes as far as offense and defense go, you just have to make the pitcher/batter interactions true to life as well as the fielding. Going "sim" in all of these areas is much easier to accomplish than it is in a football game. In Basketball there are only 5 players on the court at a time, basketball offenses generally don't have any major changes and from level to level there isn't a drastic difference in the way the game is played itself. In soccer there are 11 players on the field, but at any given time there are only a handful of interactions going on at a time. In football you have 11 players on each team all interacting with each other and responsible for many different things at every second of a play. Each player has so many different responsibilities based on what the other team does it is tough to represent in a video game AI. Hell playing football in real life people have trouble learning schemes and not making mistakes within them. Then we get to the current gen of consoles and the graphics. We all loved NCAA 06, but the lesser graphics allowed us to look past things that we can no longer look past. The graphics getting better and better lead us to complain about things like facemasks, sock length, small jersey inaccuracies. It also highlights the flaws in individual player interaction. Any little awkward interaction is just exaggerated by us having the enhanced graphics that allow us to see that.

Technically, I think it is possible to represent football realistically on current consoles. But given the complexity of the game of football, for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, there will always be things that just get left out and thus, people that will be upset.

That said, where EA fails is in the area of what they select to focus on and what they select to dismiss. It's the reason we have things like Heisman Challenger and Mascot Games instead of a working option or pass coverage.

EA builds this game as if they have no real strategy. They have no end game, no point where they are trying to get to and it shows in the game. That's why game presentation is a bastardized concoction of broadcast, field and fan points of view with no real rhyme or reason to it. They just add (or subtract) random things with no real overall goal they're trying to reach.

If they dedicated themselves to making a sim game, they could do it and they could do it extremely well. If they can't technically do it, this dev team needs to get out of the video game business. I have to imagine making a 12 on 12 multiplayer battlefield that is miles wide with jets, helicopters and tanks with buildings that can be demolished is a lot more technically challenging than having 22 football players interact together. While football is a complex sport, there are not that many actions each player can take on a play to play basis.

[majesty95]

I think the biggest issue is what was pointed out earlier, the basis from what they are building the game. It needs to be redone from the ground up. I'm not saying it is a horrible game. But I do think the foundation that was created was poorly thought out/implemented and the Tiburon team has been fighting an uphill battle ever since.

I'm not sure if the Infinity Engine is a complete rewrite or not, but hopefully it will allow them to address many of the things that have been plaguing the series since the move to next gen.

[JerseySuave4]

Not to mention the atmosphere on the old systems actually felt like College Football. The crowds went nuts and the larger the crowd the louder they got. Pumping up the crowd actually had some sort of impact on how loud the crowd got. The screen shook when it got crazy, road games felt different and felt like more of a challenge when you played at tough places to play.

[jeeve]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bama_Fan_79

I think some of these folks who think so highly of the old gen games should go back and play them again.

I did, and I found the experience staggering.

Around the time of NCAA '10, after years of saying "man they did [some important part of the game] sooo much better back in '06 on old-gen systems" I put myself to the test, thinking that I must have been looking back on the past with rose-colored glasses.

It turns out, it was not just nostalgia getting the better of me-- many aspects of the NCAA game have gotten drastically worse on the next-gen systems.

I put in '07 (regular X-box) and could not believe how much more fluid the game was, how much better the animations were, and how much better overall the experience was. I remember the feel of finding the seam on a running play and making the right cuts, how fun it was and how relatively real it felt-- now it's like I'm controlling a somewhat ethereal robot, and it just feels terribly fake.

I strongly encourage you to go back 7 or 8 years on an old-gen version, and try it yourself. I imagine you'll find yourself even more disgusted with how things have gone.

[carnalnirvana]

getting sim animations is one thing but ncaa 13/12 lacks sim AI, and i dont believe its that hard to do ...

if you know what you want, it can be done in 1 week using the same code/ratings EA has right now....

i have gotten closer than they have its a shame

step 1: QB's need to read WR( lets use route running rating) if the number 1 guy isn't open, progress to number 2 then take off.... thats football

option: QB runs unless someone is about to tackle him then look to pitch,

step 2: make all defenders lock on to the ball, DE's need to get to who has it, as it stands no one is aware of anything on the field....

looking at ncaa 13 its clear they lack a vision of what football is...

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

I think the biggest issue is what was pointed out earlier, the basis from what they are building the game. It needs to be redone from the ground up. I'm not saying it is a horrible game. But I do think the foundation that was created was poorly thought out/implemented and the Tiburon team has been fighting an uphill battle ever since.

I agree. Just a theory of mine, but I think EA football games are built with a focus on fancy jukes, spin moves, exiting TD passes, pick 6's...etc. But then then have to figure out how to back into these conclusions, and fill in the blanks of everything that occurred after the snap of the ball. And that can mean some wonky stuff, and fixes are bandaids that tend to screw something else up.

I hate to sounds like an old school "fundamentals" guy, but the game really does start in the trenches. If that was the foundation of the video game, and they got it right, it wouldn't be so hard to add on the next level of the play...the skill positions.

Again, just a theory of mine.

[WipeOut464]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerseySuave4

Not to mention the atmosphere on the old systems actually felt like College Football. The crowds went nuts and the larger the crowd the louder they got. Pumping up the crowd actually had some sort of impact on how loud the crowd got. The screen shook when it got crazy, road games felt different and felt like more of a challenge when you played at tough places to play.

And that's the craziest thing, too - it seems like this should've been the easiest thing to port over from last-gen. Screen shake and crowd noise did more for atmosphere than any jerky commentary or USC Song Girls.