Ugh, Army

[RonNewman75]

I'm in 2027 and have never seen Army Navy or Air Force even in a big bowl. But every year that ends in 0 or 5 i redo my conferences. GT on the other hand does ball out, and has been to a few NC but lost them all, also the ACC is the new SEC in my dynastys. PAC 12 & Big12 shows up every now and then but its mostly ACC Vs SEC Vs BIG10. I think moving the conferences every 5 years helps keep teams in check. Cincinnati was dominating in the American Conference but when I moved them to the BIG10 (I stripped the American Conference of the AQ) they haven't been able to win a conference title yet.

Flexbone teams do win, Wake Forest has built a hell of a flexbone team in the ACC. I know because I play as Florida State. Maybe it helps that I play the two option teams in my conference, but another thing I do is schedule the BEST teams I can in my non-conference games.

[jello1717]

I've seen in a couple of threads about how Army turns into a powerhouse, but I haven't seen that so far in my dynasty (although they did have 2 great seasons). Here's what they've done so far up to 2020:



Navy and Air Force haven't done a whole lot to write home about either.

[Exile04]

if your that worried about it go to edit rosters and blow their team up. job done

[ainokmw]

1. Army and Navy succeed in dynasties because option offenses are too powerful in simmed games. You'll also find that teams like Georgia Tech become powerhouses (they just won the NC in my dynasty handily).

Also, it's much better to be a big fish in a small pond in this current game system. You'll be over-rated by the engine if you roll through an easy schedule, so independents beating up on weak teams will do well.

2. In the period between the 40s and the 60s, Army and Navy were football powerhouses. They had five Heisman winners between 1945 and 1963. Army went 154-61-11 between 1945 and 1968. The main reason was the game was still a ground and pound game, and lack of specialization meant all the players were moderately sized. In the 1950s, the average Offensive Lineman in the NFL was 6'2", 235. That's Tim Tebow's size.

In our modern era, the service academies can't recruit 6'6" 330lb offensive linemen... which brings me to the next point:

3. The reason that Army and Navy had a renaissance in the mid to late 1990s was because they followed Air Force's lead in recognizing that they couldn't compete with the size and speed of the modern college football systems, so they opted to build around old, out-of-fashion option attack systems when schools were instituting pro-style systems left and right to entice players that they were on the "NFL track."

Many of those defenses didn't see option offenses often, and were unprepared to deal with them. But now, with the resurgence of the read option system, everyone runs it now, so the service academies are again at a disadvantage.

This is why it's unlikely that we'll see Army or Navy on the path to a NC any time soon, and why it's problematic that we see it happening so regularly in the game.

4. It doesn't really matter though, because weird counter-factual events make the game kinda fun. I don't want to see 99 OVR Bama roll through every year. That would be boring.

[zocrates]

Quote: Originally Posted by ainokmw

4. It doesn't really matter though, because weird counter-factual events make the game kinda fun. I don't want to see 99 OVR Bama roll through every year. That would be boring.

I certainly don't mind the occasional random small school making a NC run or even having a few years of success. If Army and Navy actually met in the NC game one year, I'd even think that was cool. But that's not the issue.

The issue is that there seems to be something programmed into the game that specifically and consistently gives the service academies sustained success later in dynasties. For me, it always seems to happen around 2020 in dynasties.

Again, it's not so much that they have success AT ALL...it's that they are predetermined to have success consistently in every dynasty, at least in the dynasties that I have tested as I've been messing with sliders.

Like you said, the playbooks may have a lot to do with this and hopefully changing them to something else will fix the issue. I'd rather have these schools with unrealistic playbooks than see all 3 of them in the top 10 year after year.

[ainokmw]

Quote: Originally Posted by zocrates

I certainly don't mind the occasional random small school making a NC run or even having a few years of success. If Army and Navy actually met in the NC game one year, I'd even think that was cool. But that's not the issue. The issue is that there seems to be something programmed into the game that specifically and consistently gives the service academies sustained success later in dynasties. For me, it always seems to happen around 2020 in dynasties. Again, it's not so much that they have success AT ALL...it's that they are predetermined to have success consistently in every dynasty, at least in the dynasties that I have tested as I've been messing with sliders. Like you said, the playbooks may have a lot to do with this and hopefully changing them to something else will fix the issue. I'd rather have these schools with unrealistic playbooks than see all 3 of them in the top 10 year after year.

I do agree that when something is off like this, it can ruin the suspension of disbelief.

Another potential fix would be in recruiting. I wonder if Army also does well because they're in NY, and getting a lot of proximity bonuses for under-recruited Northeastern recruits.

One potential fix should be that the three service academies should all get a permanent D- for proximity to home, regardless of where the recruit is from, because they're going to probably be shipped off to some random base in the US, or Germany, or Afghanistan after they're done. The D- in proximity to home could potentially replicate the fact that a lot of recruits don't consider Army or Navy because they don't want to put five years of military service in when they're done.

[zocrates]

Just to drive the point home, here are the year-by-year records for each of the service academies since the beginning of the current dynasty:

Army
2013: 5-7
2014: 7-6
2015: 6-6
2016: 12-1
2017: 10-2
2018: 10-2
2019: 11-2
2020: 11-2
2021: 9-4
2022: 10-3
2023: 12-1
2024: 8-5
2025: 11-2
2026: 8-5
2027: 9-4
2028: 9-4
2029: 10-3
2030: 10-3
2031: 12-1

Navy
2013: 8-5
2014: 5-7
2015: 7-6
2016: 3-8
2017: 10-3
2018: 8-5
2019: 5-7
2020: 10-3
2021: 11-2
2022: 11-2
2023: 11-2
2024: 12-1
2025: 11-2
2026: 8-5
2027: 12-1
2028: 12-1
2029: 12-1
2030: 12-1
2031: 8-5

Air Force
2013: 2-10
2014: 5-7
2015: 8-5
2016: 9-5
2017: 5-7
2018: 5-7
2019: 6-7
2020: 8-5
2021: 10-4 (MWC Champs)
2022: 12-2 (MWC Champs)
2023: 8-6 (MWC Champs)
2024: 8-6
2025: 9-4
2026: 11-3 (MWC Champs)
2027: 11-3 (MWC Champs)
2028: 8-6
2029: 7-6
2030: 11-3 (MWC Champs)
2031: 12-2 (MWC Champs)

This isn't the first time I noticed this disparity. This is just the latest dynasty I've run and it's a recurring issue in each of them.

[prettylittlesmiles]

My advice is to edit their key offensive positions to make them decline. Make them rebuild.