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different defensive playbooks

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:30 PM   #1
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different defensive playbooks

First things first, I thought that there used to be a playbook subforum? I don't see that anywhere

Anyway, I was curious what defensive playbooks people use? In old versions I used to use a 4-2-5 but a couple issues I've noticed with the PB is that when in the base formation often times guys would not man align correctly or man coverage responsibilities would be messed up. For instance the SSs in the formation would be assigned to man up on a guy all the way across the field. Also, I noticed when in game your MLB and ROLB are the two LBs that are utilized in the 4-2-5 base formation. But I noticed if you sim games the game actually uses the LOLB and ROLB and has the MLB as the odd man out (as evidenced by the LOLB recording stats when simming in this formation and the MLB having little to no stats in these sims).

I also was not ever a fan of a 3-4 D as I felt like it made it more difficult to recruit as you must find LBs who have good PMV FMV and these are difficult to find (you could convert DEs but then they are useless in coverage). So I've always just reverted to the bland 4-3 defense.

Recently I've grown rather bored with the 4-3 though and want to switch it up on defense (I'm also tired of only my DTs being the ones getting sacks in a 4 man front). I've been considering moving to a 3-3-5 because of this.

I intend for this thread to be an open discussion on different defensive formations/strategies and their strengths/weaknesses. I outlined my issues with some formations, but I have some questions about the 3-3-5

1. Anyone who has used this defense, have you had much success with it? What are the strengths and weaknesses?

2. One issue I foresee is recruiting good SSs. Many times SS prospects have low speed (like lower than my LBs, in the low 80s to high 70s). How do you typically recruit for this position? Do you convert FSs, LBs, and/or hardhitting CBs?

Thanks!
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Old 06-16-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
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Re: different defensive playbooks

I use a 3-4 but I mainly focus on finding coverage LBs and good rushing D-Linemen. As for the secondary I focus on fast CBs with good coverage skills and safeties are pretty much random.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:11 PM   #3
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Re: different defensive playbooks

I run a 4-3 because I've found that I can't get any pressure on the QB if I'm in anything else..
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:53 PM   #4
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Re: different defensive playbooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRaider10
I use a 3-4 but I mainly focus on finding coverage LBs and good rushing D-Linemen. As for the secondary I focus on fast CBs with good coverage skills and safeties are pretty much random.
I'm the same way with those positions, just that I run a 4-3. I always go for coverage LBs as well. If they don't have 80+ speed I don't want them on the field. And that's what annoys me for SSs. Many of them have very low speed despite being higher overalls. As it stands now my "next in line" at SS has 77 speed...will likely convert my backup FS with 90 speed, but his run support is terrible.

And at CB 90 speed is usually my threshold. If a CB is lower speed than that I don't want him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Perry
I run a 4-3 because I've found that I can't get any pressure on the QB if I'm in anything else..
see that's the issue I have right now in the 4-3. I either have to blitz to get pressure or I only ever get pressure from my DTs. My DEs rarely get sacks, which is annoying because it is typically the opposite in a 4-3. That's one reason why I am thinking of making the switch to the 3-3-5. That way I don't feel weird if my DEs only get 2 sacks on the season as they're technically interior linemen
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:35 PM   #5
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Re: different defensive playbooks

For about the past 4 or 5 releases of NCAA I've only ever run 3-4 defenses and I've been EXTREMELY successful with it. In my latest dynasty I switched things up and went w/ the 3-3-5. I gave it an honest try and REALLY tried to make it work. I recruited some decent SSs for it but I finally couldn't take how bad my D was anymore and midway through the 3rd year I said "eff this" and switched gears to 3-4. I switch recruiting midway through the season by cutting bait on some SSs and signing a couple of MLBs and finished the season in my 3-3-5.

In my 1st 3 seasons as 3-3-5 I was ranked in the 80s-100s for scoring D and total D. Passing teams passed ALL over me and running teams ran ALL over me.

In my 1st season as 3-4 (w/ 5 SSs and only 4 MLBs) my D's rating was even lower than it was in my last 3-3-5 year. However, just from the scheme change my D went from being ranked in the 80s-100s to being in the top 10 for scoring D and top 5 for total D. I was #1 in rushing D and top 45 for passing D. Jumping from the #100 D to the #5 D was done ENTIRELY by my playbook change from the 3-3-5 to the 3-4.

So, I play mainly zone D (probably about 85% of the time) so keep that in mind regarding my experiences w/ the 3-3-5 and 3-4. I prefer it to man as I think they cover the pass better in zones and they react WAAAAAY better against the run (there's nothing better at stopping an outside run than a CB sitting in a flat zone).
Here are some quick bullets for why I'm sooooooo much more successful w/ the 3-4 compared to the 3-3-5:

The 3-4 has AWESOME variety w/ zones AND zone blitzes while the 3-3-5 has HORRIBLE variety w/ zones/zone blitzes. IE. for cover 2, there are a few different cover 2s in the 3-3-5. In the 3-4 there are 8 or 9 different cover 2s alone! Some rush 3, some rush 4. Some have no buzzes, some have 1 buzz, some have 2. 1 has rolled coverage. 1 has a spy.

The zone blitzes however, is what REALLY turned me off on the 3-3-5. They're basically ALL the same. IE. in the 3-3-5 there are 19 cover 3 zone blitzes, and (with no exaggeration) 18 of them have the same, exact coverage scheme!!!! There is only ONE that has different coverage. These 19 plays bring different guys (SS and/or LBs and/or CBs) but 18/19 have a cover 3 shell with 3 hook zones. That's the ONLY variety that you get!
In the 3-4 there are also 19 cover 3 zone blitzes, but in addition to the usual 3 hook zones, you get varieties w/:
2 hooks w/ 6 rushers
2 hooks, 2 buzzes
2 hooks, 1 buzz.

The 3-4 has much better variety w/ its cover 2 zone blitzes too.

Another thing that I preferred about the 3-4 surprised me. I wanted the 3-3-5 because it put 8 guys in the box instead of only 7 of the 3-4, which should be great against the run. However, I found that I HATED only having 3 guys on the line and it made it tougher to stop the run instead of easier. In most 3-3-5 formations (all but the bear and Okie) there are only 3 guys on the line. In 6/7 3-4 formations, there are actually 5 guys on the line w/ 2 of them lined up outside the OTs. This made it much easier to stop the run for me. This is ESPECIALLY true when it comes to stopping the option. Having a LB on the line outside the OT makes it MUCH better against options.

I thought that "maybe the 3-3-5 is better when playing mostly man coverage" so I tried that and had less success than when I played zone. In the end, for me, the 3-4 was VASTLY superior than the 3-3-5 in every way that I can think of. I figured this would be the case, but I still can't believe that I went from having the 100th ranked defense to a top 5 defense simply by switching playbooks.

Anywho, here's how I recruit for my 3-4.
MLBs are the most important (obviously). The #1 importance is TKL. I'd take a 85 TKL/75 SPD MLB over a 75 TKL/85 SPD every time (but of course those 90 TKL/85 SPD studs are game changing when you can sign them).
My LOLB is my rushing LB and I go for BSH and FMV or PMV for them. This is my LOLB because the ROLB is the one that lines up in nickle/dollar by default. I've never had any issue having a good pass rushing OLB on my team. I never position change anyone (other than left <-> right) as a house rule. IMO, if I wanted a better pass rushing OLB (or faster SS), then I should've recruited him instead of just converting a DE (or CB).
My ROLB is my coverage guy and I need ZCV/MCV for him and the faster the better as he's frequently on a slot receiver (I almost always play personnel 1 less than the offense, IE> 3-4 against 3 wide, nickle against 4 wide, etc).
For both OLBs, like MLBs, I value TKL more than I do SPD. It's pretty rare for me to have LBs w/ SPD in the mid-high 80s.
For the DL I just generally go for the studliest guys I can find. I don't care if they're pass rushers or run stoppers, but I value BSH above everything else. It doesn't matter in game, but I have house rules on the weight of them and won't recruit guys that are too light in the @ss.
For the secondary, I generally just recruit the best guys I can find, but obviously I value ZCV much more than MCV.

You said your DTs always lead your team in sacks. For me, in my last dynasty in 22 years my MLB lead the team once, my DT lead the team twice, and the other 19 times it was my DE that lead the team in sacks.
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Last edited by jello1717; 06-17-2015 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:50 PM   #6
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Re: different defensive playbooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo COP
I'm the same way with those positions, just that I run a 4-3. I always go for coverage LBs as well. If they don't have 80+ speed I don't want them on the field. And that's what annoys me for SSs. Many of them have very low speed despite being higher overalls. As it stands now my "next in line" at SS has 77 speed...will likely convert my backup FS with 90 speed, but his run support is terrible.

And at CB 90 speed is usually my threshold. If a CB is lower speed than that I don't want him
I just checked my save from last season and see that I actually had the #1 overall D (not simply top 10), #1 rushing D and #59 passing D.
I mentioned in my recruiting that in general I don't look for speed. Here are the speeds of my guys that gave me the #1 D in the country (and it was these same guys, for the most part, that had the #100 D while in a 3-3-5):
72: LE
79: RE
53: NT
84: LOLB
85: MLB
82: MLB
80: ROLB (my other LBs were actually faster than I thought)
85: CB
92: CB
77: FS
82: SS

I'm sure most wouldn't even glance at a 77 SPD FS, much less start him (his backup has 89 SPD) but the dude led my team in INTs and was #4 in tackles. My 85 SPD #1 CB was 2nd on the team in INTs.

My LE led the nation w/ 16.0 sacks (#2 was 14.5). My true FR RE was 2nd on the team w/ 6.0 sacks. My DT was #4 on the team w/ 3.0 sacks.
Another thing I love about the 3-4 (this wasn't the case w/ the 3-3-5 and have no clue what it's like w/ the 4-3) is that my LBs are always among the team leaders in tackles w/ my #1 MLB (the one that plays every down) almost always leading my team. In this past year, here are my leading tacklers:
#1 MLB
#2 LOLB (surprising as he doesn't play in dollar or nickle normal, but he is more talented than my ROLB)
#3 SS
#4 FS
#5 MLB (doesn't play at all in any nickles/dollar)
#6 ROLB

so my 4 LBs were all in the top 6 tacklers.
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Last edited by jello1717; 06-17-2015 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:19 AM   #7
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Re: different defensive playbooks

I've run a combo of the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5 for a while now. Mostly because I didn't want to have the #1 rushing defense every single year that a 3-4 would lend me. I've got some great safeties, but still am prone to the big plays in the passing game.

jello, your 3-4 breakdown is great, and tempts me to switch. But until the sliders get where I'm getting ran all over by great teams using any scheme, I'll likely stick with the 3-3-5/4-2-5.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:56 PM   #8
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Re: different defensive playbooks

jello, great stuff. I definitely think you convinced me to move to a 3-4 defense

marty, first, do you typically recruit SSs to be your SSs or convert a different position?

Also, I can kind of agree with the whole being a top running defense aspect, however I've learned to stop looking at where my team places in the league to stop looking at how successful I actually am on defense. the top running defense year after year is more a problem within the game than it is actually have a dominating run defense

I recently switched to the community sliders and turned fatigue off in my dynasty (theres a thread about it in the sliders subforum if you haven't seen it. Obviously it creates unrealistic rotation for HUM and CPU players but it actually helps CPU run game and really game overall as they aren't handing the ball off to an exhausted RB who's running behind an exhausted o-line). These changes it made it nearly impossible for me to consistently stop the run. I'm talking RBs averaging 10 YPC against me in some games. TBH, subtracting QB runs, opposing RBs probably averaged 7-8 YPC on me for the entire year.

But you know what that netted me? Still a top 20 rush defense. I was able to stop maybe two teams on the ground all year and most RBs could put up 200 yards on me and I was still a top 20 rush defense. This is because the game

1. simply isn't good at consistently sticking to the run game (though I saw them stick to the run more this season with fatigue off then any others) and

2. Quarters simply aren't long enough for opposing teams to rush the ball enough to put up "usual" NCAA rushing statistics. Sure you can up the amount of quarters, but then you're going to get ridiculous scores as well as ridiculous passing statistics (as is my team defense is almost always in the bottom 10 of passing YPG).

I could see the 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 helping with allowing the CPU to rush for more but this past season I had watching the CPU gash me for 10 yards every single time they ran it was already infuriating enough, I don't think I could handle giving up even more yards on the ground. There were a few drives where the CPU called all run plays, drove the length of the field and scored a TD all while not facing a single 3rd down.

At the end of the day I think we all need to realize that as much as we want the game to play as true to form to real life football as possible, it's a game that was created where a user can play a CPU with 5 minute quarters and both score 40+ points. Yardage isn't going to be where it's supposed to be. It seems you either have to sacrifice unrealistic total yardage throughout a season, or unrealistic scoring games throughout the season. You can't have the best of both worlds
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