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Old 01-15-2021, 08:39 PM   #1
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erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

hello,

I'm attempting to create an Erhardt-Perkins/New England Patriots playbook that combines the plays/formations during the Randy Moss/Wes Welker era and the Rob Gronkowski/ Julian Edleman Era, but I don't know what plays/formations I would need to make this happen in NCAA 14 and I don't know if I would be able to make this playbook if the game doesn't have the required plays/formations. Can someone help me?
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:51 PM   #2
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

Sorry about posting two of the same threads. Don't know how to remove it. If you want you can come to either one or go to the one that has the most views.
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Old 01-16-2021, 08:37 PM   #3
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakernk
hello,

I'm attempting to create an Erhardt-Perkins/New England Patriots playbook that combines the plays/formations during the Randy Moss/Wes Welker era and the Rob Gronkowski/ Julian Edleman Era, but I don't know what plays/formations I would need to make this happen in NCAA 14 and I don't know if I would be able to make this playbook if the game doesn't have the required plays/formations. Can someone help me?
BAsically EP system is a concept based system that allows you to run conceps from multiple formations and looks so choose 5 to 7 plays that show up in many formations and personnel packages and run those from a bunch of looks, think plays like stick, drive, smash, verticals, curl flats, slant flats etc
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:39 PM   #4
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms1356
BAsically EP system is a concept based system that allows you to run conceps from multiple formations and looks so choose 5 to 7 plays that show up in many formations and personnel packages and run those from a bunch of looks, think plays like stick, drive, smash, verticals, curl flats, slant flats etc
Thanks. do you of any formations that would be a good fit for an EP system?
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:55 PM   #5
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

This approach is bound to be frustrating. But that's not to say it's impossible, just that you'll end up having to make a thousand compromises, and the final result will be very watered down/diluted compared to how you envisioned it.

If you could pick formations and plays independently of each other (and include any play in a formation except for plays that would be impossible because of that formation's personnel and/or alignment) it would be different. But the CPB system has so many limitations that trying to reproduce a particular team's playbook will make you want to pull your hair out. I remember once looking through a PDF of an Urban Meyer tOSU playbook from 2013 or '14 or so, and was kinda surprised at how different it really is from their in-game playbook (though the devs did a decent job with the tools they were given).

The good news is that the Pats mostly used fundamental, sound spread concepts very similar to common ones that are in the majority of the 10p/11p Shotgun forms (though you'd obviously be less interested in 10p). Route combos with simple reads that put defenders in horizontal and vertical conflict, etc. So you shouldn't have any trouble finding plays that, at the very least, wouldn't be out of place in a Pats playbook from that era.

I'd look at the most common 11-personnel and 12-personnel formations. The Oklahoma PB has a lot of 11p/12p with solid route combos/concepts. I'd also skim the Air Raid books specifically for what 11p and 12p forms (and concepts in those forms) they use. There'd be lots of 11p forms in Raid books, but not so many 12p forms, so the 12p ones would be easier to find.

There are countless 11p forms, but my personal favorite 12p forms are Twin TE Slot Wk and Ace Twins (both in the Gun but their Pistol/under center equivalents would probably be good too). TE1's corner route in Ace Twins: Slot Under is lethal (and the primary/slot route would be excellent for a Welker type, come to think of it). Those formations, even if they're not your thing, will at least give you an idea of what other forms and route combos to look for.

With any book, you want your passing game to have an answer to the various types of coverages. Just spitballing but here's how I remember the Pats of years past attacking various coverages:

Cover 3: This one's easy -- Gronk up the seams. Beyond that, lots of stuff gets open underneath Cover 3 (hello Welker -- slot outs, or crossers from the slot. Outs to Moss along the sideline under his CB's soft deep coverage).

Cover 1: Damn near any common spread playbook passing concept. The Spread books were modeled after the spread-to-run styles of Meyer, Kelly, Malzahn, et. al. And these schemes used passing concepts that specifically exploited Cover 1 since their goal was to force defenses into Cover 1 to stop the run. (Check out the route combos in Pistol - Spread: RnS Switch Dig and Shotgun - Empty Spread: WR In; basically, the one where the wide receiver on one side runs an un-pressable post or a dig, and the slot receiver cuts behind him and runs a wheel up the sideline.)

Cover 2: Anything that exploits the MOFO (middle of field = open) coverage (e.g. posts from Gronk/Welker, if the safety on that side commits to the post maybe you have a Moss running a fly up the sideline behind him).

Cover 4: The (X/Z/H/Y) Shallow Cross series in particular and the Mills route combo in general (I'd Google it if you aren't familiar with it -- you'll find something that explains it better and more efficiently than I could.) I don't know for certain that the Pats featured these concepts specifically but I'd bet my right hand that they did, simply because they're such common fundamental concepts in modern spread offenses.

Like every modern NFL team they also ran a handful of option routes, so maybe look for 60 X Choice with your Moss type running the option route and your Welker/slot guy running the cross. And H+Y Option type plays with your H and your TE. It'd be hard to implement option-route concepts in-game the way they're run in the modern era though, since the game tries to emulate the unambiguous if/then options of the Run N Shoot (and doesn't do a very good job even just doing that).

And of course they would split Gronk in the slot and even out wide sometimes, you can do that with formation subs (or, in many formations, the different packages you access with the right stick on the play call screen).

Take all this with a grain of salt, just spitballing like I said -- what I can confidently recommend though is googling Chris B. Brown's articles, anything he's written about the Pats offense either on his old blog (smartfootball) or Grantland or what have you. That'd be a great resource.

Really you can't go wrong just using the most common/reliable route combos in the Spread and Air Raid books, minus the option-based ground game if you want to emulate the Pats even down to Brady's slowness

They really just ran a basic modern pro-style Spread as we know it today, while making the most of the personnel they had in a given year; their strength was always having smart players who could learn quickly, so they could adapt their scheme pretty radically -- in some cases even from one season to the next -- to get the ball to their playmakers wherever they happened to be lined up (and if that ain't the spread in a nutshell, I dunno what is!)
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:58 PM   #6
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

i think any standard nfl formations from UC would fit

11 personel TE formations 2x2 and 3x1
10 personnel 2x2 and 3x1
12 personnel te / wing looks
some 2 back formations

the beauty of the system is it should work regardless of formations, because its concept based, for example tosser is their term for double slants so, no matter the formation #1 and #2 run slants

Ghost is their 3 level flood concept, so no matter the formation, #1 runs a go and #2 runs the deep out and the 3rd wr from the sideline runs a flats, no matter if hes a WR, a TE or a Running Back in teh back field, if he's 3rd form the sideline he has a quick out on ghost

https://grantland.com/features/how-t...rady-patriots/

https://writeforcalifornia.com/p/wha...rhardt-perkins

https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/1...brady-patriots


concepts i'd use

stick
drive
flood
slant flats
verts
smash
power
counter
bootleg

those concepts should be in pretty much every playbook formation you can find

The theory here is that no matter the formation, there is an outside receiver, an inside receiver, and a middle receiver, and each will be responsible for running his designated route.

For the quarterback, this means the play can be run repeatedly, from different formations and with different personnel, all while his read stays effectively the same. Once receivers understand each concept, they only have to know at which position they’re lined up.

The personnel and formation might cause the defense to respond differently, but for New England those changes only affect which side Brady prefers or which receiver he expects to be open.

This conceptual approach is how the Patriots are able to run the same basic plays, whether spreading the field with four or five receivers or using multiple tight ends and running backs.

Last edited by ms1356; 01-17-2021 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:31 PM   #7
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

Quote:
Originally Posted by doncicfan77
This approach is bound to be frustrating. But that's not to say it's impossible, just that you'll end up having to make a thousand compromises, and the final result will be very watered down/diluted compared to how you envisioned it.

If you could pick formations and plays independently of each other (and include any play in a formation except for plays that would be impossible because of that formation's personnel and/or alignment) it would be different. But the CPB system has so many limitations that trying to reproduce a particular team's playbook will make you want to pull your hair out. I remember once looking through a PDF of an Urban Meyer tOSU playbook from 2013 or '14 or so, and was kinda surprised at how different it really is from their in-game playbook (though the devs did a decent job with the tools they were given).

The good news is that the Pats mostly used fundamental, sound spread concepts very similar to common ones that are in the majority of the 10p/11p Shotgun forms (though you'd obviously be less interested in 10p). Route combos with simple reads that put defenders in horizontal and vertical conflict, etc. So you shouldn't have any trouble finding plays that, at the very least, wouldn't be out of place in a Pats playbook from that era.

I'd look at the most common 11-personnel and 12-personnel formations. The Oklahoma PB has a lot of 11p/12p with solid route combos/concepts. I'd also skim the Air Raid books specifically for what 11p and 12p forms (and concepts in those forms) they use. There'd be lots of 11p forms in Raid books, but not so many 12p forms, so the 12p ones would be easier to find.

There are countless 11p forms, but my personal favorite 12p forms are Twin TE Slot Wk and Ace Twins (both in the Gun but their Pistol/under center equivalents would probably be good too). TE1's corner route in Ace Twins: Slot Under is lethal (and the primary/slot route would be excellent for a Welker type, come to think of it). Those formations, even if they're not your thing, will at least give you an idea of what other forms and route combos to look for.

With any book, you want your passing game to have an answer to the various types of coverages. Just spitballing but here's how I remember the Pats of years past attacking various coverages:

Cover 3: This one's easy -- Gronk up the seams. Beyond that, lots of stuff gets open underneath Cover 3 (hello Welker -- slot outs, or crossers from the slot. Outs to Moss along the sideline under his CB's soft deep coverage).

Cover 1: Damn near any common spread playbook passing concept. The Spread books were modeled after the spread-to-run styles of Meyer, Kelly, Malzahn, et. al. And these schemes used passing concepts that specifically exploited Cover 1 since their goal was to force defenses into Cover 1 to stop the run. (Check out the route combos in Pistol - Spread: RnS Switch Dig and Shotgun - Empty Spread: WR In; basically, the one where the wide receiver on one side runs an un-pressable post or a dig, and the slot receiver cuts behind him and runs a wheel up the sideline.)

Cover 2: Anything that exploits the MOFO (middle of field = open) coverage (e.g. posts from Gronk/Welker, if the safety on that side commits to the post maybe you have a Moss running a fly up the sideline behind him).

Cover 4: The (X/Z/H/Y) Shallow Cross series in particular and the Mills route combo in general (I'd Google it if you aren't familiar with it -- you'll find something that explains it better and more efficiently than I could.) I don't know for certain that the Pats featured these concepts specifically but I'd bet my right hand that they did, simply because they're such common fundamental concepts in modern spread offenses.

Like every modern NFL team they also ran a handful of option routes, so maybe look for 60 X Choice with your Moss type running the option route and your Welker/slot guy running the cross. And H+Y Option type plays with your H and your TE. It'd be hard to implement option-route concepts in-game the way they're run in the modern era though, since the game tries to emulate the unambiguous if/then options of the Run N Shoot (and doesn't do a very good job even just doing that).

And of course they would split Gronk in the slot and even out wide sometimes, you can do that with formation subs (or, in many formations, the different packages you access with the right stick on the play call screen).

Take all this with a grain of salt, just spitballing like I said -- what I can confidently recommend though is googling Chris B. Brown's articles, anything he's written about the Pats offense either on his old blog (smartfootball) or Grantland or what have you. That'd be a great resource.

Really you can't go wrong just using the most common/reliable route combos in the Spread and Air Raid books, minus the option-based ground game if you want to emulate the Pats even down to Brady's slowness

They really just ran a basic modern pro-style Spread as we know it today, while making the most of the personnel they had in a given year; their strength was always having smart players who could learn quickly, so they could adapt their scheme pretty radically -- in some cases even from one season to the next -- to get the ball to their playmakers wherever they happened to be lined up (and if that ain't the spread in a nutshell, I dunno what is!)
here's my attempt at an Erhardt-Perkins Playbook. Basically, I looked at an NCAA 14 playbook spreadsheet and I looked at formations in the default Air Raid Playbook, but only chose the 11/12 personnel formations. If you want you could tell me which plays I can take out or add to accurately represent what the Patriots would use. This is only part 1 of my Playbook. More is coming:
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:39 PM   #8
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Re: erhardt perkins/New England Pariots offense

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakernk
here's my attempt at an Erhardt-Perkins Playbook. Basically, I looked at an NCAA 14 playbook spreadsheet and I looked at formations in the default Air Raid Playbook, but only chose the 11/12 personnel formations. If you want you could tell me which plays I can take out or add to accurately represent what the Patriots would use. This is only part 1 of my Playbook. More is coming:
Here is Part 2:
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