Casual soccer fan will i like FIFA 11 or 12 few questions

[CM1847]

A few more noob questions, seemed like a good place to put them rather than starting a new thread...

1) Is if fun to play in the MLS in the Fifa games? Basically, do they put the player ratings really low to compensate for the skill difference so it feels like you are playing in slow-motion with high school athletes? Or do they have some more refined differences, like ability to hold the ball, shot/pass accuracy, etc? It'd like to start in the MLS, but not if all they did was drop the player ratings by 20 points compared to the top level leagues in Euro.

2) Why doesn't this game come out in July? DOn't most Euro leagues start up in August? Do they not make as big of a deal about the season starting as they do in US sports? Or is this just a product of EA not wanting to put this out the same month as Madden or NCAA?

3) Why does this game hold its value so long? Doesn't make sense to me, I can buy Madden 11 new for $20(tops), yet Fifa 11 still runs at least $50? I'd love to pick up 11 at a cheap price to get used to the controls/style for 12, but $50 for a two month rental is steep.

Thanks for any answers!

[JMUfootball]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM1847

1) Is if fun to play in the MLS in the Fifa games? Basically, do they put the player ratings really low to compensate for the skill difference so it feels like you are playing in slow-motion with high school athletes? Or do they have some more refined differences, like ability to hold the ball, shot/pass accuracy, etc? It'd like to start in the MLS, but not if all they did was drop the player ratings by 20 points compared to the top level leagues in Euro. Unfortunately not. I posted about this earlier in this thread, page 1 or 2. What EA should do is lower certain "high soccer IQ" attributes, but what they end up doing is nerfing everything, and it's completely ridiculous because it's not realistic. Hopefully this will be fixed in '12 because MLS is gaining popularity and talent and is going to be hard to continue to dismiss by EA as a "nerf all attributes" league. 2) Why doesn't this game come out in July? DOn't most Euro leagues start up in August? Do they not make as big of a deal about the season starting as they do in US sports? Or is this just a product of EA not wanting to put this out the same month as Madden or NCAA? This is a very astute observation and it's one I often wonder myself. The release has nothing to do with Madden and NCAA because it's an international release, and excitement for the game is much higher in Europe than here. I think what it comes down to is that we are used to this very American concept that a sports game has to come out just before the season starts. We kind of take that for granted as a universal truth. But if you really think about it, why is this necessary? Sure it helps buzz for the league itself, and may help sales of the game a bit, but it's not really as necessary as we have come to accept it as. Just my guess as to why. 3) Why does this game hold its value so long? Doesn't make sense to me, I can buy Madden 11 new for $20(tops), yet Fifa 11 still runs at least $50? I'd love to pick up 11 at a cheap price to get used to the controls/style for 12, but $50 for a two month rental is steep. First, I wouldn't recommend getting '11 to prepare for '12 because early reports are that being a veteran of the series does not help you in '12 at all. The game is that different, '12 is going to be a huge step forward. But I think it holds its value well because it is a niche game in the U.S., and also because people who buy FIFA are usually pretty serious about the sport and are long term buyers. A lot of 10 year olds buy Madden and get bored with it so you have a huge secondary market. That, and the fact that Madden '11 is a truly putrid game, and it's not surprising that value differential is so large. Thanks for any answers!

See in bold.

[CM1847]

Thanks for the answers. Too bad about the MLS, is that true across the board, as in the lower level Euro leagues vs. the top level? Or is it just an MLS issue? For some reason I just don't like the idea of jumping in as one of the best teams from the start, seems like it would be more fun to get started at a lower level.

I think there is definitely a big advantage to releasing a game before the season starts. People see a college football game on TV in September and get the itch to play a game, they can go out and buy one. Seems really strange to not have that lined up. You probably make a great point with the US thing though, if it isn't customary to release a game before the season in Europe, then that is probably a big reason they don't move it up. I imagine the US sales are only a small fraction of the Euro sales of this game, so the Euro concept probably drives the release.

More good points on the resale value, and thanks for the advice on '11, I'll hold off for a couple of months.

One extra question on the setup of the career mode(whatever it is called in Fifa). I've been trying to read up on the league structures of the Euro leagues and there is definitely a lot going on. I'm assuming the game mimmicks the leagues accurately. How much does in-season fatigue(or "fitness/form" as it is apparently called in the futbol world) play a factor as you go through a season. I'm assuming real-life players in the Premier League don't play all 38 league games and all of the Champions League games too? Or maybe some/all of them do? Either way, is there a lot of strategy involved managing to balance this out? I'm pretty sure I"m going to be extremely lost on the off-the-field aspects of this game.

Thanks again.

[alphaguy5]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM1847

One extra question on the setup of the career mode(whatever it is called in Fifa). I've been trying to read up on the league structures of the Euro leagues and there is definitely a lot going on. I'm assuming the game mimmicks the leagues accurately. How much does in-season fatigue(or "fitness/form" as it is apparently called in the futbol world) play a factor as you go through a season. I'm assuming real-life players in the Premier League don't play all 38 league games and all of the Champions League games too? Or maybe some/all of them do? Either way, is there a lot of strategy involved managing to balance this out? I'm pretty sure I"m going to be extremely lost on the off-the-field aspects of this game. Thanks again.

There is an exhaustion system, and players that are exhausted are much more likely to be injured and they play slowly (can't really sprint) and there are other effects that are very noticeable when you try to do fancy maneuvering with them.

Especially as some of the Euro teams (i.e. Premier League, League Cup, FA Cup, and Euro games at the same time along with injuries) I have had to start subs and reserves many times. However, it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to manage it as long as you have a moderately sized reserve team and you try to stagger who is resting (so that some of your first team players are always starting).


What I wish Fifa implemented was the system Madden is adding this year where player's stats swing week to week. So maybe W. Rooney is on a hot streak and he is even better than he already is while Messi is having a cold streak and is recovering from a major injury so his ratings take a very deep dip.

[NaturalSelected]

Quote: Originally Posted by alphaguy5

What I wish Fifa implemented was the system Madden is adding this year where player's stats swing week to week. So maybe W. Rooney is on a hot streak and he is even better than he already is while Messi is having a cold streak and is recovering from a major injury so his ratings take a very deep dip.

It's called "Form" (and partially connected, "Morale") and both are in FIFA 12's Career mode this year.

[JMUfootball]

Quote: Originally Posted by alphaguy5

What I wish Fifa implemented was the system Madden is adding this year where player's stats swing week to week. So maybe W. Rooney is on a hot streak and he is even better than he already is while Messi is having a cold streak and is recovering from a major injury so his ratings take a very deep dip.

I think FIFA has had this actually for a few years. I'm deep into a Career Mode in FIFA '10 currently, and my players' OVR rating varies drastically from week to week depending on recent performance, and the position I assign them to. I had Mamadou Niang up to a 93 OVR because of a few consecutive multigoal games. Souleymane Diawara loses a few points if I play him at outside back rather than centrally. Stuff like that. Can't say for sure if this is in '11 but I'm assuming it would be (is it not?)

It's almost too fluid, the way it is implemented in FIFA '10 at least. It seems like the default is a slight drop in form if you have several average games, rather than being neutral. And there's no way to determine what your players' original skills ratings were.

[JMUfootball]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM1847

Thanks for the answers. Too bad about the MLS, is that true across the board, as in the lower level Euro leagues vs. the top level? Or is it just an MLS issue? For some reason I just don't like the idea of jumping in as one of the best teams from the start, seems like it would be more fun to get started at a lower level.

It's pretty much the same approach they took for all lower leagues. It's as if they took the top four leagues and made the gameplay "bell curve" based on players in those leagues alone. To give an example, some of the best teams in the game have players with OVR's all in the mid-80's. This seems insanely low, considering the hundreds of thousands of professional players, and these are the very best. It's not crazy to expect nearly everyone on a top EPL team to be in the mid-90's. Remember, EA, these ratings are not indicating how perfect of a player they are, but should indicate how they are relative to everyone else in the game. That's always been my theory on game player ratings.

Then, for all the other 20 or so leagues in game they just gave broad attribute decreases across the board, depending on league quality. So you can imagine, the best teams in the game average only a mid-80's OVR player rating...if you play in, say, the Belgium second league it's really like playing in slow motion. There's certainly some truth to this but there still should be standout players in each league regardless of league quality...you know, perhaps a really fast guy, a guy with a really good header. They shouldn't be complete players (otherwise they'd be playing elsewhere) but a few attributes should be universal.

I wish that EA instead made their bell curve based on middle level leagues, and then really really dialed up the attributes on the top players. Rather than really really dialing down everyone else.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM1847

I think there is definitely a big advantage to releasing a game before the season starts. People see a college football game on TV in September and get the itch to play a game, they can go out and buy one. Seems really strange to not have that lined up.

Well there's pent up demand as well. You could argue that it builds hype for the video game if people watch a few weeks of action and then start to eagerly anticipate the game's release. But I'm sure sales are not affected one way or the other with either release strategy, otherwise we'd see the same strategy for both continents.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM1847

One extra question on the setup of the career mode(whatever it is called in Fifa). I've been trying to read up on the league structures of the Euro leagues and there is definitely a lot going on. I'm assuming the game mimmicks the leagues accurately. How much does in-season fatigue(or "fitness/form" as it is apparently called in the futbol world) play a factor as you go through a season. I'm assuming real-life players in the Premier League don't play all 38 league games and all of the Champions League games too? Or maybe some/all of them do? Either way, is there a lot of strategy involved managing to balance this out? I'm pretty sure I"m going to be extremely lost on the off-the-field aspects of this game.

Aside from the concurrent discussion on form/morale, there is an easy to decipher fatigue system in the game. It probably won't be as complicated for you as you are assuming, and it's actually pretty fun/rewarding to give players needed breaks and give young players a chance.

[Qb]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMUfootball

I think FIFA has had this actually for a few years. I'm deep into a Career Mode in FIFA '10 currently, and my players' OVR rating varies drastically from week to week... Can't say for sure if this is in '11 but I'm assuming it would be (is it not?)

It was removed for FIFA11. The dev team stated they were not happy with its implementation & results so they canned it until it could be improved. It will be back in FIFA12.