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[jtbatcave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

The issue I'm seeing with the lower line length is what I've always seen: no resistance. It may seem like there are more bodies because there are more numbers, but those numbers are in a retreating attitude. It reminds me of PES where there are two mindsets - Attack! or Defend!; nothing in between. The issue is also that the field cannot decompress enough because there are always numbers behind the ball. Pair that up with the 1v1 mentality of FIFA's hypermotion and now passive midfielders stand out even more because they are either warping back into their "set" position or are just stand still. I understand we are wanting compression, but that makes for a lot of the same type of games and same type of attacks that happen. It's almost like a tennis match or like a training exercise where you walk the players into their positions, at walking-pace on the ball. Fifa's Hypermotion is very much like this, it's designed to get everyone back into position - and then receive the onslaught. In this video I played the first bit with 22 length (WC, default, 18 RF being tested, may go higher) and while you can see a lot of good in terms of static positioning, it's not effective positioning. Again Hypermotion establishes position - and receive onslaught. Perfect example at 1:44 where I defend a corner, calmly stroll out of my own box and am not met with any resistance whatsoever because the Hypermotion has aligned defending players into their set positions - ready for their first command - like toy soldiers. - Look at how easy I can move the ball with just a simple dribble inside then out. - How easy I can find the flanks or just wait for an overlap. - How defending players are jumbling up and running into each other. - No long balls, less variety Now, I'm not completely saying that Line Length 22 is bad - I'm just saying that relative to the set - it doesn't work for all. Meaning different tactics, formations and strategies. Which is what we're geared to build the sets on. This next video is something we are working on. Here we've created an accel discrep or 48/49, a test in evened out pass speed at 40/40 again, RF at 50/50 (true to tactics is the intent, but also getting players in tactical defensive positions relative to pressure) and FT 100 to establish less warping/odd animations. This game had everything (including too many breaks due to work, apologies), but it confirmed that we can work with different values, relative to the set to establish the same intents and purposes that other values can bring, like a lower line length. Overall, I am always going to push for better defensive stance, but not at the expense of variety and tactical variety at that. We don't have to play like this is FIFA 21 where the midfield was 100% absent - which we responded with having line length at an all-time low of 5/5.

Hi Matt, when I am playing line length 22 on Ultimate mode. There are alot of resistance in the midfield from the CPU and they are certainly not passive. I have had countless amazing midfield battle for the ball with the CPU.

Also for the first time ever on a Fifa game, the midfielders actually managed to put on a challenge when I'm in a shooting position inside the penalty box.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I was averaging more than 3 goals per game before but now I am only averaging 1 goal per game. Ever since I have set the line length at 22, the highest scoreline was just one amazing 3-2 match. Majority of the games ended in 1-0 and 0-0. I actually played a world cup game yesterday, Argentina (same formation as my career mode team Barcelona) VS France and I lost 4-1. Kante the midfielder for France was simply amazing in the match against me.

As compared with line length at 42, I could score up to 9 goals in a game against the bad teams in La Liga. I could even thrash teams like Aletico and Madrid 5-1, 4-0 in numerous occasions.

I was able to score many types of goals easily from the middle via through pass and especially from the flank because there are not enough resistance from the CPU midfielders when I was playing line length at 42 and marking below 70. At least when I set the marking at 70, it was harder for me to attack from the middle but it is still extremely easy to overlap and score from the flank with just a simple short pass to the middle for my attackers or midfielder to score because the CPU midfielders will simply be ball watching at their static positioning. When I was playing against top teams in the Champion Leagues, that was how I find my opening to score. In real life, that will never happen because the midfielders will defend the passing lane to stop short passes into the penalty box from the flank. The same repeated amount of goals I have scored from the flank are simply too unrealistic.

With line length at 22, it is extremely difficult for me to attack from the middle and I have to find opening from the flank. Overlapping is still relatively easy for me but the CPU is able to defend much better and intercept my short pass into the penalty box from my wingbacks to my wingers or midfielders. I can no longer score the easy goals from the flank with short passing into the center of the penalty box for tap in goals. I only managed to score a couple of goals from the same play but they were long range shots just inside the edge of the penalty box and not tap in.

It will be great if you can work out a new setting that will make the CPU midfielders defend better without setting the line length so low.

Really appreciate you and your team to make this game playable and more realistic. When I played this game out of the box, my scoreline was 8-6 against Man City! Haha...It was a sign of relief when I applied your version 1 back then because it make the game playable.

[Cobra1204]

Quote: Originally Posted by PunkMonk

About how many shots per game are you getting? This is always a big one for me. Just wondering if the lower line length making defense tougher would reduce shos per game as a result, which I would assume. I play 6min halves and have no interest in moving up to anything higher, so maybe a mid point would be better for me.

yes tbh you have much more less shots per game as defence are more compact so you have that struggle in the midfield to try and break defences which is realistic and rewarding but yes you have to think through a lot as shots are very much reduced

[Cobra1204]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serchenko9

I've been trying this modifications and they are pretty good. Defence now behaves much better, as jbatcave explains. In addition to that and trying to reduce the game speed to the max, I lowered pass speed to 8, sprint speed to 0 and acceleration to 49 (less than 49 makes players never get tired), making the gameplay more enjoyable for me. The rest is the same of Matt's work.

I tried your changes mate and really enjoyed the realistic game play. yes there is much more battle in midfield and a lot of nil nil games

[jtbatcave]

Just tested the line length of 22 and 42 on both havles against Bayern Munich in my career mode Champions League final.

Line length at 22 during the first half is 0-0 with me having zero shots but with more possession. CPU has 2 shots.

Line length at 42 during the second half, I overlap easily on the flank and make a short pass to my striker to score from close range with only the goalkeeper to beat. Managed to get 4 shots and match ended 1-0.

Played against Atlanta at line length of 42, 25 and 23. Scored 3 identical goals (short pass from the flank into the box and scored). The moment I changed the line length to 22, the CPU scored 3 goals against me and the match ended 4-3. I kept trying to score from the same play but the CPU managed to stop me from scoring after I set the line length at 22.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by jtbatcave

Just tested the line length of 22 and 42 on both havles against Bayern Munich in my career mode Champions League final. Line length at 22 during the first half is 0-0 with me having zero shots but with more possession. CPU has 2 shots. Line length at 42 during the second half, I overlap easily on the flank and make a short pass to my striker to score from close range with only the goalkeeper to beat. Managed to get 4 shots and match ended 1-0. Played against Atlanta at line length of 42, 25 and 23. Scored 3 identical goals (short pass from the flank into the box and scored). The moment I changed the line length to 22, the CPU scored 3 goals against me and the match ended 4-3. I kept trying to score from the same play but the CPU managed to stop me from scoring after I set the line length at 22.

You're giving up a whole lot of the midfield, variety, team ID in trying to fix an exploit that you use. That's the issue I see with length at 22, or anything below 40. The video I posted, at 2:40 (https://youtu.be/UIG3qvyGT7c?t=160), I passed from the flank to a forward in the box, behind the midfield line and had a strike on goal.

I played 3 matches with what we're testing (48/49 acc, shot speed 51/51, pass speed 40/40, RF 50/50, FT 100/100) and had two games of 0-0 and another loss 0-3 on World Class. I think the real key is just how each game played differently and how the methods of attack/defense complimented the team's tactics. Not every team is going to drop back all in unison the way a compressed line length of 22 does. I think anything that takes away from the tactics is detrimental to the experience overall. We can't adjust an entire set for one exploit and try to validate other parts of the field as sacrifice.

As always, the good with lower length is more compression, but the loss is variety on both sides of the ball. It's possible we can look into a different value, but compensate at other areas (which could be in-line with what is already being tested), but it's going to be a process regardless, and not just geared to plug in the holes of exploits.

Here is another match with the settings.

[Serchenko9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

You're giving up a whole lot of the midfield, variety, team ID in trying to fix an exploit that you use. That's the issue I see with length at 22, or anything below 40. The video I posted, at 2:40 (https://youtu.be/UIG3qvyGT7c?t=160), I passed from the flank to a forward in the box, behind the midfield line and had a strike on goal. I played 3 matches with what we're testing (48/49 acc, shot speed 51/51, pass speed 40/40, RF 50/50, FT 100/100) and had two games of 0-0 and another loss 0-3 on World Class. I think the real key is just how each game played differently and how the methods of attack/defense complimented the team's tactics. Not every team is going to drop back all in unison the way a compressed line length of 22 does. I think anything that takes away from the tactics is detrimental to the experience overall. We can't adjust an entire set for one exploit and try to validate other parts of the field as sacrifice. As always, the good with lower length is more compression, but the loss is variety on both sides of the ball. It's possible we can look into a different value, but compensate at other areas (which could be in-line with what is already being tested), but it's going to be a process regardless, and not just geared to plug in the holes of exploits. Here is another match with the settings.

Just play against a high pressing team like Atletico, Barça or Mirandés (spanish second division league) as you can see in this clip and you'll see a different way of defending, not every team goes back like that.

https://youtu.be/owmCTAWVC2M
They attack with numbers, my CB on his own goes to the cross and intercept it! then two guys tried to steal the ball aggressively, with a slide tackle and then following my guy until I pass through. Yeah, there's a bit of CB jockey there, slow issues, but anyway I had to dribble two guys to get a good position to shoot.

I followed jtbatcave modifications, he raised marking too to 70, so there's less passivity there. I add a lower sprint (0), acceleracion (49) and pass speed (8) to the mix, so maybe it doesn't work that well only lowering length at 22.

TBH nowadays real football is more about good and compact team defence in most cases. Not many teams are so brave to push high and try to steal the ball at all cost, most teams stay passive waiting the opponent mistake, as I do in this play to steal the ball. In previous versions, I was never able to steal a ball like this one with midfielders because there were acres of space between lines.

https://youtu.be/TBbVvMG1KKU
Even AI defend me with 2 guys on the sides, I've never seen that since I came back to FIFA 2022, and that's one thing that you see in all the games in which there is a team that defends in solidarity.

I loved how in that play, after switching the play from right to left with a couple passes gaps between the lines appeared. Until now I didn't get any real sensation of finding gaps between lines like that.

[Serchenko9]

How many times I've suffered this situation or similar, when AI gets to the end line, pass back and there´s nobody near the striker to just bother him, and it's completely impossible to react, take the CB and close him to block the shoot.

Even if you do that, the striker will make a pass to another unmarked striker and bam, goal scored.

ibb.co/RBKkf8R

Or this situation trying to make your 3 midfielders help you in defence?
I gave up and always defend with the midfielders because if I pick the CB, the midfielders won't even move an eyelash to help.

ibb.co/WsjnYYm

I know you like this kind of gameplay with more spaces to play and see different attacks by the middle of the pitch but that's not "realistic" football mate, realistic football is to get back to defend and then having to move the ball around a lot to open gaps in defence.

PS: IDK how to put the images in the post, sorry.. just click the link.

[Serchenko9]

Another couple of examples of what I think is highly rewarding.

https://youtu.be/0ANHE0w_FVE
Just defending as a pack (recall I'm playing with a created team, they are pretty bad to defend more open), my DMFs are really DMFs, covering passing lanes and going counterattack as fast as possible. Mirandés track back quick so I have to switch sides, attack on the right, couple of first time passes and then a goal chance.

Last one https://youtu.be/KB2A6roYcsM
You can see the agressive defence (for FIFA standards) from AI on the sides but quick first time passing can break any defence as you can see. Finally you get the pass to the box and there it is the CB blocking the shot inside the 6 yard box.


For me it's way less frustrating than before, I even had fun yesterday playing some games.. So I won't insist with this anymore, I guess I'm going to switch my PS5 as I reach home and continue enjoying