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Old 10-26-2016, 06:17 PM   #33
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

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Originally Posted by Brahvocado
Your specific example is wrong, because Villarreal is an extremely aggressive team that plays with a heavy press.

Also, the Prem is not the most fast-paced or intense league, that is a myth perpetuated by Sky Sports. We SEEM fast because Prem teams regularly bypass the midfield completely by spraying balls out wide and avoiding it.

In fact, one of the biggest reasons Prem teams struggle in Europe (and also one of the biggest reasons Spanish teams dominate) is because our teams DON'T close down opposition on the ball enough. When teams like Barca or even Sevilla/Villarreal lose the ball they immediately swarm trying to win it back, something English teams don't do with any regularity.

Last year, the only player on Leicester that heavily pressed off the ball was Kante. The rest of the team sat back in a structured shape inviting pressure out wide (since Kante made it impossible to play through the middle), allowing their ogre-ish robo-defense to clear away any crosses that came in.
Good points. I would still say Barclays is a faster league and more physical than Spain, Spain slower and more advanced in actual footballing.

Villarreal switched managers in August I think it was. I haven't seen them play this year yet, and WhoScored has them as a team that like to play in their own half and non aggressive & thats what I was going off of.
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Old 10-26-2016, 06:21 PM   #34
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

& you are 100% right about Leicester City being more of a contain team.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:06 PM   #35
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

There are teams in Spain that play very physical football, the Prem is probably more physical but not nearly as much as English pundits claim. Spain definitely isn't slow, just more technical.

Like I said, the Prem gives the illusion of speed due to the way teams play, but it's not really faster than any other top league. If anything, Prem teams look pretty well off-pace when they play teams from Spain and Germany.
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:10 PM   #36
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

Finally had some luck tonight with get Leicester to play against me how I wanted them to. Progress!

Combination of tactics and sliders. Now the hope is the sliders work for the opposite, extreme possession.

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Old 10-27-2016, 01:27 AM   #37
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

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Originally Posted by Brahvocado
There are teams in Spain that play very physical football, the Prem is probably more physical but not nearly as much as English pundits claim. Spain definitely isn't slow, just more technical.

Like I said, the Prem gives the illusion of speed due to the way teams play, but it's not really faster than any other top league. If anything, Prem teams look pretty well off-pace when they play teams from Spain and Germany.
I think the speed comes from more arial passes, long balls and headers. In Spain, the game is played on the ground. Like you said, its an illusion.
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Old 10-28-2016, 02:40 PM   #38
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

Good link for people looking for tactics and formations.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd3...UmYghdjqA_WW9A
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:10 AM   #39
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

Honestly I think it's such a myth that the Premier League is actually any good when you take away the individual players. What I mean by that is: yes on the whole most teams are stacked and even some league one sides might be able, on the basis of that, to compete in France, Germany or Spain the their highest tiers BUT the crucial difference is that in the last 10 years any new tactical advancements in the game have bypassed English football completely.

This might be about to change this season with Mourinho, Ranieri, Klopp, Guardiola, Wenger, Koeman and others in charge of strong sides BUT that does not erase the history of the last 10 years. England has, for the longest time, never attracted the most successfull international managers and even if it did, as in the case of Mourinho, they have hardly been successfull on the international stage. One of the main reasons for that is obviously the ridiculous number of games played in the league and cup competitions meaning that most teams are gased by the time the CL quarter and semifinals role around. Furthermore when are you supposed to actually practice and train? That should not be discounted. Also, obviously, you have more teams going for the champion's crown meaning you can't afford to drop points or take it easy on lowly opponents whereas Bayern, Paris and Madrid, Madrid and Barca tend to be able to clobber any other side in their league with ease. Another reason for this lack of success in recent years is the bloating of squads. I mean we are talking about 40 man squads with another 10-20 players on loan. How on earth can you get structure into such a team and how on earth are you supposed to work with this many players? Instead of forming a core squad and adding bits and pieces to it over time most English sides seem to chase the headlines by trying to get in a new multi-million pound signing, or several of them, in each transfer window without actually scouting the players. They seem to simply buy by name and because they heard someone was good. There is no structure to it. No specific team need is adressed in most cases which leads to a lot of teams being an assortment of individual talent rather than a crafted squad.

To top that off for too long England had this ridiculous notion of a team manager, a guy, handing of most of his practice to his assisstants and sitting around in his ivory tower watching players through the window and buying and selling them. That's patently ridiculous and I don't know who put the notion into their heads, especially since French, German, Dutch, Italian and Spanish managers have always been coaches first and foremost, working with their squads on the pitch being their main task, and managers second in Germany, as in France and in Spain there has even been, for the longest time, a proper distinction between the coach who runs the team and the manager or director of sports who buys and sells players. That lack of oversight also leads to teams not really having an identity. I mean yes under Alex Ferguson you knew what United stood for and what Arsenal stood for under Wenger and how Chelsea played under Mourinho but these are good managers. How many other teams really had an identity beyond: let's get the ball in the net? Sometimes I think the last team before ManU and Arsenal that had an identity was Nottingham Forest. Liverpool, even in their resurgence, certainly didn't have one, neither did Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Tottenham or any other team with any kind of success over the last few years.

The reason that for the longest time England was unattractive to any decent active manager is that before the last Sky Deal and the EPL not knowing what to do with their money most clubs were simply unattractive. Old stadiums or at least run down ones, empty half the time because the tickets are too expensive, lack of funds except for ManU and Chelsea and later ManCity, too many games to properly implement a philosophy and a league that condoned and encouraged brutal fouls and basic football tactics like in the 1930's. So it would be 30 or so games against sides that would simply play kick and rush and in the meantime try to kick your players to death. How is that attractive to any manager?

Like someone has stated the supposed speed of the Premier League is simply due to the fact that they have no clue how to use the midfield and how to get the ball back. So it's just chuck it in front and let some sort of Jesus in football boots do something with it and when we lose it we all run back and stand around the box waiting for the other teams Jesus. You could see in parts how absolutely astonished most teams in England were to deal with Klopps team when they played well even though his straight forward doubling and trippling tactics and hard pressing has been outdated for 3 years now and most teams have found a counter meassure against it. You could also see how helpless most teams were against Van Gaal's ball posession football when it was actually working as intended (which it didn't do often due to the poor quality of players he employed) even though this tactic has been out of date since at least 2010. You also saw how Leicester beat other teams by Ranieri actually using proper modern tactics to give his team an edge. An edge he also gave them in recruiting, the same way Southampton did under Koeman, by putting together a team that adressed the key requirements for his tactics and using the players to best effect.

This season you will see more of that with all of these teams in capable hands and a proper training camp under their belt with their new managers. It's a good thing because maybe finally all that money these teams spent will be put to good use instead of just being wasted again and again and maybe we finally get to see some attractive attacking football.

For my money, the Bundesliga and La Liga are by far the strongest leagues in terms of being well managed and competitive and the most attractive leagues to watch. That is mainly because they started escaping the circle of always employing the same tired all managers again and again mostly. They give new young coaches a chance and actually have a decent coaching program as well as well as a youth program that feed directly into most teams producing quality young players instead of just buying like mad every chance they get. And please don't argue with the continental success of Arsenal or ManU. Ferguson in his time, as well as Wenger, were miles ahead of the rest of EPL and it mostly showed in the league standings as well and they actually did it before someone with a pot of gold took over the club. Just because they did well does not mean that it isn't a disgrace that a league with teams like Tottenham, Liverpool, ManCity and Everton wasn't able to produce anything on the international stage for such a long time given how far ahead they are financially. I mean... Bayern doesn't have some sheikh or some other rich sugar daddy. They made money by being well managed, well coached and spent their money well most of the time and the reward is that they won the CL in 2013, made the finals 2010 and 2012 and have made it to at least the semifinals of the CL every year since 2012 and if you disregard a couple of weak years they actually were as successfull before. They made the quarter final 1998, the final 1999, the semifinal 2000, won in 2001 won and made the quarter final in 2002. Furthermore they managed to snag first Guardiola and now Ancelotti, coaches who, even when they signed for Bayern, were chased by half of the EPL. Even van Gaal managed Bayern first and with greater success as did Klinsmann, who was said to be the top pick for the English national squad and Klopp was on Bayerns list well before anybody in England was aware he existed.

So to cut a long text short I personally wish the English spectators the best with all those great managers but up until now, watching the Premier League has to have been the most boring experience to anyone who actually enjoys watching football. As a league it's supremely overrated but that is what you get if you believe some media hype.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:46 PM   #40
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Re: Fifa 17 Formations and Tactics

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Originally Posted by Saxongirl
Honestly I think it's such a myth that the Premier League is actually any good when you take away the individual players. What I mean by that is: yes on the whole most teams are stacked and even some league one sides might be able, on the basis of that, to compete in France, Germany or Spain the their highest tiers BUT the crucial difference is that in the last 10 years any new tactical advancements in the game have bypassed English football completely.

This might be about to change this season with Mourinho, Ranieri, Klopp, Guardiola, Wenger, Koeman and others in charge of strong sides BUT that does not erase the history of the last 10 years. England has, for the longest time, never attracted the most successfull international managers and even if it did, as in the case of Mourinho, they have hardly been successfull on the international stage. One of the main reasons for that is obviously the ridiculous number of games played in the league and cup competitions meaning that most teams are gased by the time the CL quarter and semifinals role around. Furthermore when are you supposed to actually practice and train? That should not be discounted. Also, obviously, you have more teams going for the champion's crown meaning you can't afford to drop points or take it easy on lowly opponents whereas Bayern, Paris and Madrid, Madrid and Barca tend to be able to clobber any other side in their league with ease. Another reason for this lack of success in recent years is the bloating of squads. I mean we are talking about 40 man squads with another 10-20 players on loan. How on earth can you get structure into such a team and how on earth are you supposed to work with this many players? Instead of forming a core squad and adding bits and pieces to it over time most English sides seem to chase the headlines by trying to get in a new multi-million pound signing, or several of them, in each transfer window without actually scouting the players. They seem to simply buy by name and because they heard someone was good. There is no structure to it. No specific team need is adressed in most cases which leads to a lot of teams being an assortment of individual talent rather than a crafted squad.

To top that off for too long England had this ridiculous notion of a team manager, a guy, handing of most of his practice to his assisstants and sitting around in his ivory tower watching players through the window and buying and selling them. That's patently ridiculous and I don't know who put the notion into their heads, especially since French, German, Dutch, Italian and Spanish managers have always been coaches first and foremost, working with their squads on the pitch being their main task, and managers second in Germany, as in France and in Spain there has even been, for the longest time, a proper distinction between the coach who runs the team and the manager or director of sports who buys and sells players. That lack of oversight also leads to teams not really having an identity. I mean yes under Alex Ferguson you knew what United stood for and what Arsenal stood for under Wenger and how Chelsea played under Mourinho but these are good managers. How many other teams really had an identity beyond: let's get the ball in the net? Sometimes I think the last team before ManU and Arsenal that had an identity was Nottingham Forest. Liverpool, even in their resurgence, certainly didn't have one, neither did Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Tottenham or any other team with any kind of success over the last few years.

The reason that for the longest time England was unattractive to any decent active manager is that before the last Sky Deal and the EPL not knowing what to do with their money most clubs were simply unattractive. Old stadiums or at least run down ones, empty half the time because the tickets are too expensive, lack of funds except for ManU and Chelsea and later ManCity, too many games to properly implement a philosophy and a league that condoned and encouraged brutal fouls and basic football tactics like in the 1930's. So it would be 30 or so games against sides that would simply play kick and rush and in the meantime try to kick your players to death. How is that attractive to any manager?

Like someone has stated the supposed speed of the Premier League is simply due to the fact that they have no clue how to use the midfield and how to get the ball back. So it's just chuck it in front and let some sort of Jesus in football boots do something with it and when we lose it we all run back and stand around the box waiting for the other teams Jesus. You could see in parts how absolutely astonished most teams in England were to deal with Klopps team when they played well even though his straight forward doubling and trippling tactics and hard pressing has been outdated for 3 years now and most teams have found a counter meassure against it. You could also see how helpless most teams were against Van Gaal's ball posession football when it was actually working as intended (which it didn't do often due to the poor quality of players he employed) even though this tactic has been out of date since at least 2010. You also saw how Leicester beat other teams by Ranieri actually using proper modern tactics to give his team an edge. An edge he also gave them in recruiting, the same way Southampton did under Koeman, by putting together a team that adressed the key requirements for his tactics and using the players to best effect.

This season you will see more of that with all of these teams in capable hands and a proper training camp under their belt with their new managers. It's a good thing because maybe finally all that money these teams spent will be put to good use instead of just being wasted again and again and maybe we finally get to see some attractive attacking football.

For my money, the Bundesliga and La Liga are by far the strongest leagues in terms of being well managed and competitive and the most attractive leagues to watch. That is mainly because they started escaping the circle of always employing the same tired all managers again and again mostly. They give new young coaches a chance and actually have a decent coaching program as well as well as a youth program that feed directly into most teams producing quality young players instead of just buying like mad every chance they get. And please don't argue with the continental success of Arsenal or ManU. Ferguson in his time, as well as Wenger, were miles ahead of the rest of EPL and it mostly showed in the league standings as well and they actually did it before someone with a pot of gold took over the club. Just because they did well does not mean that it isn't a disgrace that a league with teams like Tottenham, Liverpool, ManCity and Everton wasn't able to produce anything on the international stage for such a long time given how far ahead they are financially. I mean... Bayern doesn't have some sheikh or some other rich sugar daddy. They made money by being well managed, well coached and spent their money well most of the time and the reward is that they won the CL in 2013, made the finals 2010 and 2012 and have made it to at least the semifinals of the CL every year since 2012 and if you disregard a couple of weak years they actually were as successfull before. They made the quarter final 1998, the final 1999, the semifinal 2000, won in 2001 won and made the quarter final in 2002. Furthermore they managed to snag first Guardiola and now Ancelotti, coaches who, even when they signed for Bayern, were chased by half of the EPL. Even van Gaal managed Bayern first and with greater success as did Klinsmann, who was said to be the top pick for the English national squad and Klopp was on Bayerns list well before anybody in England was aware he existed.

So to cut a long text short I personally wish the English spectators the best with all those great managers but up until now, watching the Premier League has to have been the most boring experience to anyone who actually enjoys watching football. As a league it's supremely overrated but that is what you get if you believe some media hype.
Are you serious ?, where have you obtained this knowledge ?. I am not writing in defense of PL, but would you mind giving me some facts of what you mention ?.

And make it a little shorter thanks ...

English football is great because it's where the money is, and it's total indifference on your name Klopp, Mourinho or whatever. Where were you in the 70 s and 80 s (proberly not born) ?. Bayern Munchen and gladbach were great and who more from Germany ?. England had Liverpool and yes Nottingham. Try right and check how many times they together won precursor to CL ?. There is no coach who alone controls the clubs in England?! . Which has some of the best Academies in the world, (your 40 man squad is only Chelsea). Your total ignorant about English football is scary ?. And if you finally need to compare leagues, there is nothing more boring than the German Bundesliga (which I have grown up with) Bayern and yes some years ago BVB, the rest is spectator, must I mention La Liga or french league ?. You need to wager your money again.- No, Spanish clubs are not well managed, many have financial problems. Why is Bayern, Real, FCB and other great powers in football. Yes, probably because they have a good understanding of the management of a football club etc. But it's about money, the big clubs (cities) have the money. What had Gladbach in the 70s as they do not have now ?. I think it's disrespectful and actually they replied proof of complete ignorance claiming to judge how well football is guided on what they have won and while attributing the success of a club which coach they can lure to the club. Mourinho is a good example of a media created product. Why do you think Klopp is in Liverpool, because of their history or is it the money ?, (I have no doubt it is their past). Please do not be so naive. Bayern may not be owned by you mention sheik, but they would like to have his money, a little unlucky for a jew club is it not? . Bayern are not better or worse than others. But what they are good at is to destroy competition in the domestic league by buying the competition's players. When you look at a league health, you should look at the chain weakest part, to judge the whole. How is the economic situation of the small clubs in Germany ?.

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