Adaptive Difficulty

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by ricardodc

Accrington (CPU) vs Arsenal (several sliders with discrepancies in favor of user) Yeh... I know... There's nothing wrong in that sequence (besides tacking CPU at least 3 times without winning possession, penalty for what!?) ... I am just a moaner and a newbie...

Ricardo, that was a tough one to watch, but I don't think it was as automatic as it's being made out to be.

I think they broke you down a bit too easily, but that wasn't the best defending in the world, if we're being honest. Monreal took a very sharp angle, twice in fact, the last one was the killer as it was behind the player - with coverage being too far away. The tackles in the box were dangerous, and over-committing. I know it's Accrington v Arsenal, but taking those kind of chances, regardless of opponent rating, can't really pay off.

Overall, it was just a series of over-commitment by the defenders. I didn't like the handball call at all though, that detection is off sometimes.

My main gripe with the game, pre-patch, was the overuse of drilled passes that completely bypass your midfield. That's how this initial play started as well.

Other than that, the game has a lot less scripting than in previous years. Remember, we can use super-cancel, and the CPU can't. Meaning, we can get off the script with a touch of two buttons, while the CPU remains on their rails.

I'm glad there is adaptive difficulty, to think there isn't is a bit naive. As someone who modified gameplay code for FIFA in the early 2000's, it is layered with scripting. It's much more complex now, but it's a video game that relies on scripts. PES is scripted too, you just can't see the actual code like the FIFA PC users have for several years. Out of sight out of mind .

[Gonira]

Quote: Originally Posted by NinthFall

Gonira, in all honesty, do you or do you not believe in adaptive difficulty? And do you play Fifa 17?

i don't play fifa 17, but the game still shares a lot of coding with previous versions, in which i have put several hundreds of hours against the cpu.

the op is proof there IS adaptive difficulty. i think it sucks and i never implied it didn't exist.

Quote: Originally Posted by ricardodc

You should know that seeing is not exactly the same as experiencing it.

if the conclusions someone takes from watching the videos you post are worthless, then what's the point in posting them?

i'm not the only one in this thread who thinks you're not being reasonable in the plays you're complaining.

i relate your attitude towards the game to those of people with anger management problems. sports games are frustrating because losing is a big part of the experience. this is especially true in soccer, because a single play can decide the match and weaker teams do win against the odds quite frequently. imo you should learn to enjoy this frustration as part of the process.

[RonMexico1992]

Quote: Originally Posted by RonMexico1992

I'm hilarious? Relevant comeback. 1. When you were tracking back, the defending was horrible. You were over aggressive and didn't win the ball and he got behind you. Is that now what happened? 2. Does what I just described ever happen in real life? Yes. All the time. In almost every single game. 3. As for that sloppy defending in the box, where you failed to win the ball, and the man on the ball stumbled through the tackles and the ball stayed in front of him and he was able to maintain possession and deliver a cross. Is that not exactly what happened? Yes it it. 4. Does a footballer ever get tackled by more then one guy and some how miraculously stay on his feet, when it appeared impossible for him to retain possession of the ball? Yes. All the time. So congratulations on making a clip of something that happens all the time in football? Its one play of a game that consist of many plays and you're making a clip as if thats a microcosm for the rest of the game or that play somehow isn't realistic, like it never happenes, like it doesn't happen every weekend somewhere in the world. You're salty you conceded.

what exactly were you disagreeing with?

You post the videos and have had no discussion since... I'm confused to what you are disagreeing with.

was the defending not poor tracking back? Did you ever win the ball? No. Did he get free for a cross? yes.

the header, save, handball and penalty is irrelevant to the actual play.

[ricardodc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gonira

it may be nice for casual gamers that are tied to preset difficulty levels and just want to pick the game up and play. but for people like us that like to go a bit hardcore and fine tune difficulty with sliders, this is just an extremely unrealistic way to force games to end in draws or close scores more often than they should. momentum in sports actually kinda work in the opposite way of what these codes do. besides all that, it's an immersion killer. i'd hate to be playing and thinking "oh, i scored two goals, now it's time for the cpu to automatically start playing better".

Quote: Originally Posted by RonMexico1992

I think I'm going to turn the adaptive AI off. Think I should? where exactly is the file

... I guess you guys changed your minds... Now Adaptive Difficulty is fine and it's just about poor user ability.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gonira

i don't play fifa 17, but the game still shares a lot of coding with previous versions, in which i have put several hundreds of hours against the cpu.

I have played all Battlefield games series but not BF1. That doesn't give me the right to go to a BF1 forum and behave like an expert and call newbie to anyone. You should be more humble and respectful.

Quote: Originally Posted by dubcity

EA's programming logic is that every match should have a competitive scoreline, regardless of team talent level. That is clearly a flawed way to look at things

Quote: Originally Posted by NinthFall

This in my opinion should be the main focus of further offline gameplay updates. It does appear that EA wants the scoreline (as someone already stated) to stay competitive no matter who you're up against. It should feel different playing against tougher teams and easier teams

Quote: Originally Posted by BSDShoes

This is very visible in the NHL series, in NHL 16 I would get squashed by Toronto being the weakest team, it's the game trying to balance and like many has been saying that playing Barca and playing Aston Villa feels the same (I don't have that problem in PES). Also the AI scoring at the 45th and 90th minute is noticeable, just like in the NHL series, it'll go on an unstoppable pattern to score a goal and even if you do everything to stop it the puck physics takes way anyways and even if you have a 1 goal lead going into the third it's unbearable which is why I only play 2 of the 3 periods now and quit the game in second intermission (it automatically sims the third period)- the NHL series just isn't that fun anymore.

Quote: Originally Posted by NinthFall

Funny how player ratings also suddenly disappear. Alberto Moreno, 77 overall. Here I come rushing in with Bellerin and Walcott. Moreno runs behind and catches them, makes a miracle of a tackle to stop the ball and then steals it as both Bellerin and Walcott are too slow to react to the loose ball and rushes away with the ball. Both Bellerin and Walcott are too slow to catch Moreno before it's in my end, where Moreno dribbles through Bellerin and Walcott and Ramsey and Mustafi and passes to Sturridge who misses the net. I mean what the peep Moreno you were supposed to tackle Walcott inside the box and give me a penalty as it went in RL. When did you become such a superstar

Quote: Originally Posted by bad_philanthropy

We'll never know, but I do think it's a combination of cpu buff of speed, agility, ball control, passing, and attacking, and nerfing the speed and agility of the human. I think all of us can relate to the sudden sluggish feeling of one's squad in CM. You always feel a step behind the cpu, and the inputs feel kind of delayed and gummy. And, yeah, your team's AI seems a little wonky. Simple slow and close passes will just kind of go ignored by your players when they are only a foot or so off the mark, and there is nothing you can do to take control and get your player there in time. It's been this way for years and years.

I guess I am not alone. The difference is that I am trying to give video examples.

Quote:

[ADAPTIVE_DIFFICULTY_INCREASE_DIFFICULTY] // Description: "User scores in first 5 minutes" // WHEN IF DO <increase difficulty by 0.25> RULE1_PARAM1 = 5 // Minutes RULE1_OUTPUT = 0.25 // Description: "User scores in first 20 minutes" // WHEN IF DO <increase difficulty by 0.25> RULE2_PARAM1 = 20 // Minutes RULE2_OUTPUT = 0.25 // Description: "Score >= 2 goal lead" // WHEN IF DO <increase difficulty by 0.25> RULE3_PARAM1 = 2 // Goal lead RULE3_OUTPUT = 0.25 // Description: ">70% possession after at least 20 minutes" // WHEN IF DO <increase difficulty by 0.25> RULE4_PARAM1 = 70 // Possession percentage RULE4_PARAM2 = 20 // Minutes RULE4_OUTPUT = 0.25

This is why in my Accrington vs Arsenal tests I ALWAYS feel cheated. User should be able to have a 1, 2, 3 etc goal lead and not being artificial penalized by it. User shouldn't be penalized for having >70% possession. That's not REALISTIC. Think about Barcelona games and you imagine how ridiculous that would be in RL.

I am stunned by some guys that call yourselves "Sim lovers" to agree with this lazy/incapable coding by EA. You are just being fanboys and bulling everyone that points the finger on EA mistakes.

Quote: Originally Posted by KTBFFH

I've been playing FIFA on PC for several years now, and I was perusing through the initfs_Win32 file for the game. I came upon the adaptive difficulty if anyone wants to see exactly why the game plays differently under certain conditions. Cheers.

Thanks for this thread.

Cheers!

[NinthFall]

The thing is you can't really argue if you don't play the game.

Because I know how it feels to have lots of experience and argue about the game, because everything is currently going fine for you. You don't have the recent experience of frustration over the game, like the ones playing the game. You have flashes of how it used to be and if it went well for you, more than likely you'll forget your raging moments and your brain decides to black it out thinking it was just your lack of skill.

That's unfortunately very common in forums these days, but the truth is you have to feel the gameplay to understand what's going on. You can't see it by watching it.

To me this adaptive difficulty seems to be present a lot in career mode games, but on FUT offline games it's gone. I find FUT very easy despite of playing with the same difficulty, it must have something to do with the league tables and stats of career mode. Like the game is trying to prevent one certain player of reaching 50 goals a season or a team winning 5-0 every game. You can do that in FUT, but not in career mode on harder difficulties.

[ricardodc]

BARCELONA vs CELTIC (Real life 2016 CL)

2' - Barcelona Goal » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

20' - Barcelona 72,5% possession » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

26' - Barcelona Goal » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

Half-time 2-0 Barcelona 73,8% possession

Full-time 7-0, Barcelona 71,8% possession


I see no FIFA 17 Adaptive Difficulty in RL. Playing FIFA 17 offline vs IA, EA will keep you in their balancing bounds, unless you are too good to counter all that balancing coding.

You don't mind? Fine. But don't try to deny it. Don't try to silent the ones that are bothered. Don't try to blame human ability.
I will keep posting videos if I want to. If you don't like it, don't watch. Ignore. Go back to your own reality and be happy.

[Gonira]

you're confusing things.

i'm totally against adaptive ai in this game, especially in the way it is implemented in this file. it's lazy, screams artificial, makes harder for huge performance gaps that should exist, it forces draws, it is bad. at the very least they should put an option to turn it off on the settings screen.

i'm only criticizing your videos where you make a huge deal about totally ordinary plays where you just hand it to the cpu and don't want to be penalized for it. if you want to make a point in a video, please, be substantial at least. otherwise you're just a whiner.

and once again, if i can't judge a play for a video and what i know about football, fifa and physics, then don't post the video because it is worthless. and if you only accept opinions that agree with you and everyone else that disagrees should remain silent, mate, this is not how life works.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gonira

you're confusing things. i'm totally against adaptive ai in this game, especially in the way it is implemented in this file. it's lazy, screams artificial, makes harder for huge performance gaps that should exist, it forces draws, it is bad. at the very least they should put an option to turn it off on the settings screen. i'm only criticizing your videos where you make a huge deal about totally ordinary plays where you just hand it to the cpu and don't want to be penalized for it. if you want to make a point in a video, please, be substantial at least. otherwise you're just a whiner. and once again, if i can't judge a play for a video and what i know about football, fifa and physics, then don't post the video because it is worthless. and if you only accept opinions that agree with you and everyone else that disagrees should remain silent, mate, this is not how life works.

This is pretty spot on, honestly.

Ricardo, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that adaptive AI doesn't exist. However, all of the videos posted are taken out of context, and then, they are posted in a thread that only has the "out of context" mentality in hand - because we weren't there to watch the entire match with you. Does that make sense?

A great example is a match I streamed, post-patch update, between Stoke (me) and Burnley in the EFL. I lost 2-1 in extra time...to 9-men. Out of context that sounds like CPU cheat and adaptive AI. However, the match was by far one of the best I've ever played on FIFA. I couldnt' convert and couldn't set up my chances. Here's the match (Burnley starts at 1:26:00)

https://www.twitch.tv/matt10l/v/100253632

Ninth, regarding watching vs playing, most of the time it doesn't matter. We're all footy fans, we know what looks right and what doesn't, from a base fundamentals, etc. The only area I would agree that it would matter is if there was a malfunction like a controller button not responding, etc.

Lastly, the comparison of real life vs FIFA results, is a tough negotiation. The problem that I see a lot of people post are the final scores, or goals, and use that data as a means to accomplish their agenda of confirming Adaptive AI.

Think Adaptive AI more like a smart AI to RECOGNIZE the situation at hand. Where it would take 20-30 minutes for a team to get into the flow of a match, and recognize how that match is going, FIFA has to reproduce this in a matter of 5-10 minutes, tops. How else, other than coded Adaptive AI could this be accomplished?

I've said it multiple times this year, the comeback code AI of previous years occurs much less than before. I do think the CPU's over-use of the drilled pass, and intent to constantly push forward-forward in the defensive third, contributes to a lot of issues, and if you're open to slider modification, then that would be an area to focus on to further enjoy the game.