It's Time for a change

[poulka]

I am also in the elders group at 35. I agree with you all too. What gets my goat with this game is that the game seems pre determined on who is going to win. The slow reactions on your team compared to the ridulous passing stop and turn on a dime cpu you. Then to top it off I have had games were I am leading by three only to lose the game in the last minute by a total collapse. The cup can go on a tear sometimes and don't care good your stick skills are you can't stop them. I will give EA credit on NHL 94, but this while beautiful and times very fun, but it is does moments of unrealness that kills me at times.

[giantsharks]

I love this post and agree with everything said. One thing I would like to add is this game with all its AI flaws aside has looked the same for years now. What i mean by that is it has been the same thing, skate up and down with limited tools and shoot.

If you imagine a hockey players tools of the trade from skating, shooting, dekeing, stick checks, body checks etc, this game is sooooo so limited. They could add things like heel-to-heel turns, better animations for quick starts, revamp the checking systems so theres not just annihilate and pin, redo the shot animations (they just look off) and those are just a few things off the top of my head.

Compare this game to NBA 2k and before anyone says you cant compare the two because of funding, one is basketball and blahh blah, i think its a valid comparison, both sports games that charge the same amount. If you look at nba 2k, you can post up, most guys have signature shots, dribble signatures plus way more. If nba 2k players had the same tool as these nhl games they would basically be able to dribble in a generic way, shoot and block shots.

I also would love to see presentation really get a huge overhaul from goal celebrations to in game cut-scenes, milestone cut-scenes, player models, signature goal celebrations, stanley cup celebrations, post-whistle scrums and more.

I understand this all cant happen year to year but they are moving at a snails pace, if not completely stalled out, on making improvements. I would really like to see EA take some chances because I cant imagine this game in its current trajectory, will last.

One thing NBA 2k has proven is you can find a balance of sim and arcade and be extremely successful especially with a proper slider system which this game lacks more than any other sports game on the market

[DJ NEO]

Its funny how this thread represents almost exactly my feelings about the series.
Its mix of sorrow, frustration, but after a chance I get to the studio even a understanding and hope.

I was always wondering, why they build this game like this, is this what they really like when they play by themselves? Up and down in hyperspeed going with puck glued to the stick through the solid objects, then shoot and over and over again. Play against ai that is obviously cheating. Is that really fun for them?

I cant go into details yet obviously, but hopefully I can tell you now that 90% of things that bothers us, bothers them too.
So If anything I know now perfectly that its not that they dont know about the issues or dont care, or they like the game like this.
We are so lucky that RIGT NOW the main gameplay and presentation producer is our guy. He REALLY wants the game to play realistically.
He even told te me that if it was just his game he would tweak the game exactly as I did. Even more important is that they know how to do it, or at least I believe it.

The problem is that we are not the only customers and good, quality things just takes time and resources. A lot in the core of the game needs to be changed or improved.
Its not like add few more ways how to let the people spent money on virtual hockey cards.

This year will be interesting, that's for sure

[Efbomb]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJ NEO

Its funny how this thread represents almost exactly my feelings about the series. Its mix of sorrow, frustration, but after a chance I get to the studio even a understanding and hope. I was always wondering, why they build this game like this, is this what they really like when they play by themselves? Up and down in hyperspeed going with puck glued to the stick through the solid objects, then shoot and over and over again. Play against ai that is obviously cheating. Is that really fun for them? I cant go into details yet obviously, but hopefully I can tell you now that 90% of things that bothers us, bothers them too. So If anything I know now perfectly that its not that they dont know about the issues or dont care, or they like the game like this. We are so lucky that RIGT NOW the main gameplay and presentation producer is our guy. He REALLY wants the game to play realistically. He even told te me that if it was just his game he would tweak the game exactly as I did. Even more important is that they know how to do it, or at least I believe it. The problem is that we are not the only customers and good, quality things just takes time and resources. A lot in the core of the game needs to be changed or improved. Its not like add few more ways how to let the people spent money on virtual hockey cards. This year will be interesting, that's for sure

This is very good to hear. At 42, I'm starting to wonder how many more "seasons" I've got left in me if the game remains this way.

Remember, none of us want the game to be easier. We only want it to be realistic and try to represent the sport we love as close as possible.

On a side note;

Neo, please inform the devs that it would be tremendous if they could unlock the "preferred number" slot in "edit player". I'm getting tired of spending hours/days editing my rosters only to have AHL call ups wearing the wrong jersey numbers. It's such a little thing that causes me so much heartache.

Thanks.

[iCake]

Okay, let me, a new generation player, at least compared to you all guys, I'm 27, pitch in on this discussion.

First of all, I completely agree with everything that's been said here. The core gameplay just feels way off right now. I've been playing this series since nhl 2001 on PS one and I've also spotted a few things that's been mentioned here.

- Sometimes it sure feels like the game code has decided you're not going to win. It does that in a plethora of ways. Sometimes it's just that every bounce just doesn't go in your favor. Sometimes it's just that every pass you make for a quick breakout is going way wide. Sometimes it's just that you get scored on very easy shots. Sometimes it's just that the puck doesn't go in no matter what, you can hit a lot of posts, you can watch the goalie make a lot of tremendous saves and of course, even the cheasers, the glitch goals that have way too high a chance to go in just don't go in.

- Speaking of cheesers... This crap must be eliminated from this game completely. It's what ultimately ruins the on-line play. Everyone just exploit this kind of plays and must I say, it's no fun at all to play like that...

Now speaking of things that I'd like to see changed. Although, I did say that I agree with everything that's been said here, but I think the core gameplay must see improvements first, then we can go on about things like different helmets for goalkeepers and so on.

My take:

- Sticks must become actual physical objects. Sticks on sticks, legs, board, torsos etc collisions must be implemeted. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing an oppsoning player skate away with the puck just because his stick magically went right through my legs..

- The D play must be overhauled. First, add the option to block off someone's stick. Second, make it possible to not huge hit check a player off his feet, but rather just skate into him and then force him away from the play. That's something that is used in real hockey a lot, even more so then hits.

- Make it way more difficult to just stick handle your way in. Luckily, the first 2 suggestions might just take care of this and even more so, they'll sure add to the variaty of penelties in this game, maybe they'll finally feel just right. People must be forced to use passes to set up their plays, right now it's just skate around the zone with one player and look for a one-timer or a way in to the slot.

- Skating.. It's just horrible right now. The time it takes skaters to turn around is just hilarious, even I, an amateur player can turn around almost in an instant, but these EA guys take ages to do that. It's like they're tanks or something... Sharp turns, you have to be able to do sharper turns that you can do right now, that'll of course be more like a pivot and make you lose a lot of speed, but there we go, sharper turns are a must, also maybe add a chance to fall if you try too sharp a turn at high speed? Also, where is the explosive skating? It's just non-existant in this game. Everyone seems to have exactly the same speed in this game, it's almost impossible to outhustle anyone in this game, not unless you have a handicap. This MUST be adressed. Also make it possible to battle your way past a defender, if you have a higher speed and his trying to block you off from the play by putting his back in front of you.

- Do realistic puck bounces, if I poke check someone from the side, the puck should not magically go down instead of to the opposite side I'm poking from. This is beyond annoying, making a better play for your opponet with something that's supposed to hinder them. Not that it never happens, but in this game this seems to happen way too often, the puck just kind of always bounces around the slot and almost always right to someone's stick, that's not how this works in real life.

- AI must just be redone from scratch. Defending, breaking out, cycling, offense, opening up in the oz... These all have some glaring issues, which all of us are aware off, there is no doubt about that. Just to point out a few of those. The D pressure along the board is a joke, you can very easily drop off your D by making a pivot along the boards, well, sometimes they suck you in, but most of time you just get away with it. It all because the D is too agressive and always tries to get to your strong side shoulder, instead of just staing on your short side. Cycling... is absolutely horrendous, the offense does an absolutely terrible job at positioning their bodies correctly, there are always facing the wrong way, skating the wrong way and therefore you always battle against momentum when you get the puck, that's simply not fun, not that they always have to do the right thing, but they have to exhibit at least a semblance of self-awareness in this regard and try to get it right. Breakout, it's simply too slow, the offense sure takes its sweet time to actually starting to transition from a D play to a breakout, sometimes you've already safely controlled the puck for about 5 seconds and they still didn't even think about starting to spring up. The same thing goes to the defensive play, they take their sweet time realizing, that the puck has been coughed up and its time to actually return to the full D play.

- Stick handling. First and foremost, the simple two way state that either register you as having the puck or free-skating must be demolished. No more glued to the tape puck. You must really juggle the puck, sometimes letting go of it on purpose to get it past your opposition or juggle it to the side in a wide arch, or under a heel of the opposing skate stick etc. Also you just have to add this move already, when you skate to the puck then quickly hit it so that it's behind your back and then turning 180 to protect it with your body. Damn, this move is so sorely missed, instead of it this abomination happens. You get to the puck and try to pull it like that to block off a D attempt to poke check it from you, instead you end up facing the D and hodling the puck right in front of him for an easy poke check, what's worst of it all, your skater doesn't react to any input to turn in at least sideways, he just skates like this gifting the puck away to the D.

- This one, I'm not sure why this isn't implemeted yet. When a player is skating to the banch to change he must hold his stick up to indicate that... That's just how the real hockey players do it, to avoid being called for "too many players on the ice", you know, just in case someone will try to pass them the puck. Speaking of which, add the said penalty to the game. But do it right, please. A small random chance of that, but mostly passing the puck to a player who's about to go to the bench. Also make the line changes realistic for that matter, it's not just one in one out, it's one out when a changing player is close enough to the bench. Smart changes would also be very welcomed, I mean, when a cough up the puck in the OZ and go for change at the nearest to the OZ end of the bench and your substitue jumps out from the nearest to your DZ end of the bench.

- Passing. Animations should be redone from scratch, especially those for the saucer pass. The D should not be that good at intercepting passes, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about making cross-crease passes when I want to, I'm talking about this kinds of situations. You stick handle the puck and a D is pressing you, you make a pass but the D intercepts it almost with 100% efficiency. It alsmost never goes under the heel of his stick or between his legs or whatever, it just almost always hits the tape of his stick and stays there, not even bounce... That's even worse with saucer passes, those are also interceped with the same efficency in situations like this, this are some impressive baseball and fortune teller skills there, this must be adressed.

- Shooting animations. Nuff siad.

[Simple Mathematics]

Quote: Originally Posted by iCake

Okay, let me, a new generation player, at least compared to you all guys, I'm 27, pitch in on this discussion. First of all, I completely agree with everything that's been said here. The core gameplay just feels way off right now. I've been playing this series since nhl 2001 on PS one and I've also spotted a few things that's been mentioned here. - Sometimes it sure feels like the game code has decided you're not going to win. It does that in a plethora of ways. Sometimes it's just that every bounce just doesn't go in your favor. Sometimes it's just that every pass you make for a quick breakout is going way wide. Sometimes it's just that you get scored on very easy shots. Sometimes it's just that the puck doesn't go in no matter what, you can hit a lot of posts, you can watch the goalie make a lot of tremendous saves and of course, even the cheasers, the glitch goals that have way too high a chance to go in just don't go in. - Speaking of cheesers... This crap must be eliminated from this game completely. It's what ultimately ruins the on-line play. Everyone just exploit this kind of plays and must I say, it's no fun at all to play like that... Now speaking of things that I'd like to see changed. Although, I did say that I agree with everything that's been said here, but I think the core gameplay must see improvements first, then we can go on about things like different helmets for goalkeepers and so on. My take: - Sticks must become actual physical objects. Sticks on sticks, legs, board, torsos etc collisions must be implemeted. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing an oppsoning player skate away with the puck just because his stick magically went right through my legs.. - The D play must be overhauled. First, add the option to block off someone's stick. Second, make it possible to not huge hit check a player off his feet, but rather just skate into him and then force him away from the play. That's something that is used in real hockey a lot, even more so then hits. - Make it way more difficult to just stick handle your way in. Luckily, the first 2 suggestions might just take care of this and even more so, they'll sure add to the variaty of penelties in this game, maybe they'll finally feel just right. People must be forced to use passes to set up their plays, right now it's just skate around the zone with one player and look for a one-timer or a way in to the slot. - Skating.. It's just horrible right now. The time it takes skaters to turn around is just hilarious, even I, an amateur player can turn around almost in an instant, but these EA guys take ages to do that. It's like they're tanks or something... Sharp turns, you have to be able to do sharper turns that you can do right now, that'll of course be more like a pivot and make you lose a lot of speed, but there we go, sharper turns are a must, also maybe add a chance to fall if you try too sharp a turn at high speed? Also, where is the explosive skating? It's just non-existant in this game. Everyone seems to have exactly the same speed in this game, it's almost impossible to outhustle anyone in this game, not unless you have a handicap. This MUST be adressed. Also make it possible to battle your way past a defender, if you have a higher speed and his trying to block you off from the play by putting his back in front of you. - Do realistic puck bounces, if I poke check someone from the side, the puck should not magically go down instead of to the opposite side I'm poking from. This is beyond annoying, making a better play for your opponet with something that's supposed to hinder them. Not that it never happens, but in this game this seems to happen way too often, the puck just kind of always bounces around the slot and almost always right to someone's stick, that's not how this works in real life. - AI must just be redone from scratch. Defending, breaking out, cycling, offense, opening up in the oz... These all have some glaring issues, which all of us are aware off, there is no doubt about that. Just to point out a few of those. The D pressure along the board is a joke, you can very easily drop off your D by making a pivot along the boards, well, sometimes they suck you in, but most of time you just get away with it. It all because the D is too agressive and always tries to get to your strong side shoulder, instead of just staing on your short side. Cycling... is absolutely horrendous, the offense does an absolutely terrible job at positioning their bodies correctly, there are always facing the wrong way, skating the wrong way and therefore you always battle against momentum when you get the puck, that's simply not fun, not that they always have to do the right thing, but they have to exhibit at least a semblance of self-awareness in this regard and try to get it right. Breakout, it's simply too slow, the offense sure takes its sweet time to actually starting to transition from a D play to a breakout, sometimes you've already safely controlled the puck for about 5 seconds and they still didn't even think about starting to spring up. The same thing goes to the defensive play, they take their sweet time realizing, that the puck has been coughed up and its time to actually return to the full D play. - Stick handling. First and foremost, the simple two way state that either register you as having the puck or free-skating must be demolished. No more glued to the tape puck. You must really juggle the puck, sometimes letting go of it on purpose to get it past your opposition or juggle it to the side in a wide arch, or under a heel of the opposing skate stick etc. Also you just have to add this move already, when you skate to the puck then quickly hit it so that it's behind your back and then turning 180 to protect it with your body. Damn, this move is so sorely missed, instead of it this abomination happens. You get to the puck and try to pull it like that to block off a D attempt to poke check it from you, instead you end up facing the D and hodling the puck right in front of him for an easy poke check, what's worst of it all, your skater doesn't react to any input to turn in at least sideways, he just skates like this gifting the puck away to the D. - This one, I'm not sure why this isn't implemeted yet. When a player is skating to the banch to change he must hold his stick up to indicate that... That's just how the real hockey players do it, to avoid being called for "too many players on the ice", you know, just in case someone will try to pass them the puck. Speaking of which, add the said penalty to the game. But do it right, please. A small random chance of that, but mostly passing the puck to a player who's about to go to the bench. Also make the line changes realistic for that matter, it's not just one in one out, it's one out when a changing player is close enough to the bench. Smart changes would also be very welcomed, I mean, when a cough up the puck in the OZ and go for change at the nearest to the OZ end of the bench and your substitue jumps out from the nearest to your DZ end of the bench. - Passing. Animations should be redone from scratch, especially those for the saucer pass. The D should not be that good at intercepting passes, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about making cross-crease passes when I want to, I'm talking about this kinds of situations. You stick handle the puck and a D is pressing you, you make a pass but the D intercepts it almost with 100% efficiency. It alsmost never goes under the heel of his stick or between his legs or whatever, it just almost always hits the tape of his stick and stays there, not even bounce... That's even worse with saucer passes, those are also interceped with the same efficency in situations like this, this are some impressive baseball and fortune teller skills there, this must be adressed. - Shooting animations. Nuff siad.

I am in love with this post. I feel the exact same. Good stuff man.