The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

[Honome]

Quote: Originally Posted by mikey87

I understand why the offline players (that's what I used to be, until I just had to give up) keep asking for more realistic game, and it's totally fine to do it, but for that you just have to look elsewhere. EA's NHL series has not been, is not, and will never be for us.

You know, that's exactly the problem with NHL games, we don't have anywhere else to look for since the EA game is the only one in the market. I don't like Fifa gameplay, for example, but at least i have PES to play and no reason to keep complaining in Fifa forums. I believe that most of the people complaining here were not be here repeating the same problems that the series have for years if they had another hockey game to play.

I know there are other options but my PS3 is broken and i don't have a PC good enough to play the DJNEO version of NHL2K and i believe the majority of people are in the same situation having only a PS4 or XB1. So i love hockey and the only game i have to play is from EA series

[Fiddy]

Guys, we are never going to get an MLB or NBA 2K type experience with NHL. Try and change your mindset and enjoy this game for what it is, an arcade game with simulation elements.

Since I did that a few years ago I've actually had some fun via Franchise mode (adjusted sliders) and even the over the top arcade modes.

Playing EASHL is what grinds my gears because those simulation elements in an arcade game hamper the experience.

[tyler289]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fiddy

Guys, we are never going to get an MLB or NBA 2K type experience with NHL. Try and change your mindset and enjoy this game for what it is, an arcade game with simulation elements. Since I did that a few years ago I've actually had some fun via Franchise mode (adjusted sliders) and even the over the top arcade modes. Playing EASHL is what grinds my gears because those simulation elements in an arcade game hamper the experience.

Starting last year I just rolled with a franchise mode with adjusted sliders and had fun with it. I didn't worry about perfect sim stats or a perfect game, just that it was fun and satisfying enough to play, which it was, and more. It's got it's flaws and it will never have the development resources of a Madden or The Show (which has nailed gameplay IMO but struggles in the rest of the game) but it's still a solid game for the most part. I haven't even tried EASHL or anything in a few years, beyond dipping my toes in the water, but them adding more individual player modes makes a ton of sense to me.

Hell this year I got Madden for the first time in 3 years and I love it, I think it's incredible. It has flaws and weird glitches but man it's fun as hell to play in franchise mode. Maybe I just finally hit that age where my I'm busy enough that I don't have time to nitpick over sliders and re-playing/testing stuff and just want to enjoy the games for what they are.

I laugh at everyone who rages about how the game is "made for Youtubers" like they didn't just release a 20-minute video on how they added coaches and systems to the game, improved their scouting system they installed last year and fixed/tuned a ton of random franchise mode issues.

This development team has its flaws and has made its missteps but to say they've completely ignored offline games is such a lie. They even had sliders upon sliders for us to tweak. I wish they had better player separation and other things but the game is fun and I find just relaxing and playing it for what it is is all you can do. Looking for the most sim experience will always leave you wanting more.

[The EVHL]

Quote: Originally Posted by tyler289

Starting last year I just rolled with a franchise mode with adjusted sliders and had fun with it. I didn't worry about perfect sim stats or a perfect game, just that it was fun and satisfying enough to play, which it was, and more. It's got it's flaws and it will never have the development resources of a Madden or The Show (which has nailed gameplay IMO but struggles in the rest of the game) but it's still a solid game for the most part. I haven't even tried EASHL or anything in a few years, beyond dipping my toes in the water, but them adding more individual player modes makes a ton of sense to me. Hell this year I got Madden for the first time in 3 years and I love it, I think it's incredible. It has flaws and weird glitches but man it's fun as hell to play in franchise mode. Maybe I just finally hit that age where my I'm busy enough that I don't have time to nitpick over sliders and re-playing/testing stuff and just want to enjoy the games for what they are. I laugh at everyone who rages about how the game is "made for Youtubers" like they didn't just release a 20-minute video on how they added coaches and systems to the game, improved their scouting system they installed last year and fixed/tuned a ton of random franchise mode issues. This development team has its flaws and has made its missteps but to say they've completely ignored offline games is such a lie. They even had sliders upon sliders for us to tweak. I wish they had better player separation and other things but the game is fun and I find just relaxing and playing it for what it is is all you can do. Looking for the most sim experience will always leave you wanting more.

And I laugh at everyone who thinks this game is an offline masterpiece because they added a few features into a rigid, non-replayable mode due to the lack of player separation and all 30-31 other teams playing the same, boring, overly-passive style of hockey. To say they've really invested in the offline experience is a lie. Sure, just like online they've added a few things, but they haven't addressed the AI, specifically your teammate AI which is literally dumbed-down due to the "elite' HUT community. It's painfully obvious that the dumbing-down of teammate AI is a global edit which completely changes the offline experience for people. Unlike Madden, I can't control the whole league and create my own storylines and truly be immersed in the league. Nope, I have to resort to my own isolated stories and be content with playing the same exact team with different jerseys essentially every time I drop into a game. Offline NHL is lightyears behind what the modern, offline experience should be. 2K has set the bar, and EA continues to chase it all over their offerings.

As far as the game being "sim" and the notion that this game will never be "sim" I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you there. This team has given us all of the slider editing abilities in the world to make this game play as "sim" as one would like it to be, the only thing missing is a revamped AI (or at least, as helpful as last-gen AI) to make this game really impressive sim experience.

People won't do this because it takes time (but then they'll complain that the game will never be sim) but if you change the CPU AI strategies to be more aggressive and pinch more in an offline mode where you're able to switch teams, you'll see how close this game is to "sim" hockey with those changes + slider edits. That's why I'll continue to provide feedback because the game is closer to "sim" than it's ever been as far as the foundation, game mechanics, and now the revamped goalies have taken the game even closer to that complete product we're all looking for.

The tools are mostly there, but there's still some fundamental flaws with the AI that are preventing a truly great experience. Due to the fact that I've made these changes and have made a slider set that makes the games amazingly fun offline in 19, I will not give-up on seeing a complete sim experience. I will not accept that EA can't deliver the final update this game needs. And I'm not coming from a place of malice, I genuinely have a lot of fun in NHL running my own league via play now, where I can adjust the strats to deliver an awesome game experience. I'm not hating on the devs when I provide my honest feedback, I'm trying to be one more voice in the "revamp the AI" group so hopefully they address that part of the game. I'm not an "EA *****" nor is Jake, nor is anybody who literally takes time out of their day to provide feedback on what would make them purchase the game again.

[jake19ny]

I’m not knocking anyone who has fun with this game. I’m actually happy for those who are able to come to terms with the flaws. I think I could come to term with them also if they just added player separation which was the main focus of this thread.
See I can have fun playing this game but the fun doesn’t last and I cannot complete a whole season or a franchise because it becomes dreadfully boring after a few games and you realize once again every player plays exactly the same thus every team plays exactly the same.
Guys who enjoy the game aren’t wrong but those of us who can’t aren't wrong either

By the way the developers do a pretty good job of explaining things but 2 things they never address or give a legitimate reason for and that is why is there no roster share and why is there no player separation. They avoid answering those two simple questions like the plague

[tyler289]

Quote: Originally Posted by jake19ny

I’m not knocking anyone who has fun with this game. I’m actually happy for those who are able to come to terms with the flaws. I think I could come to term with them also if they just added player separation which was the main focus of this thread. See I can have fun playing this game but the fun doesn’t last and I cannot complete a whole season or a franchise because it becomes dreadfully boring after a few games and you realize once again every player plays exactly the same thus every team plays exactly the same. Guys who enjoy the game aren’t wrong but those of us who can’t aren't wrong either By the way the developers do a pretty good job of explaining things but 2 things they never address or give a legitimate reason for and that is why is there no roster share and why is there no player separation. They avoid answering those two simple questions like the plague

I can't speak to roster share, but one of the major issues with player separation is that a) they have to make ratings for guys from NHL to WHL and Europe, so they can't just make those players like 25 overalls, it wouldn't work playing those games and b) they don't have enough ratings to really give players different strengths/weaknesses. As for a), someone had a great idea to just add a "league weight" qualifier so that if a guy is a 99 in the WHL he's a stud but he'd be just a good player in the AHL, etc. As for b), I'd like to see them add in more things to give guys more a range.

This obviously would take a ton of time and a general re-working of their entire roster system so I'm not surprised it hasn't been addressed and no developer wants to say, "we're not re-rating every player because it would change the way the game plays substantially." Not to mention the niche that would really use roster share is probably pretty small in the grand scheme of things and one other thing - they can't hype up their legend teams if people can just create their own. I disagree with their disregard for these features but can understand the logic.

Roster share would be great but would be difficult with all the leagues and league rules in place.

Quote:

And I laugh at everyone who thinks this game is an offline masterpiece because they added a few features into a rigid, non-replayable mode due to the lack of player separation and all 30-31 other teams playing the same, boring, overly-passive style of hockey. To say they've really invested in the offline experience is a lie.

I didn't say it is a masterpiece and it's not, and they've clearly invested in the offline experience of BeAGM mode even if you think they haven't done enough. I wish they made it more of a priority but unfortunately, this is where we're at.

[jake19ny]

Quote: Originally Posted by tyler289

I can't speak to roster share, but one of the major issues with player separation is that a) they have to make ratings for guys from NHL to WHL and Europe, so they can't just make those players like 25 overalls, it wouldn't work playing those games and b) they don't have enough ratings to really give players different strengths/weaknesses. As for a), someone had a great idea to just add a "league weight" qualifier so that if a guy is a 99 in the WHL he's a stud but he'd be just a good player in the AHL, etc. As for b), I'd like to see them add in more things to give guys more a range. This obviously would take a ton of time and a general re-working of their entire roster system so I'm not surprised it hasn't been addressed and no developer wants to say, "we're not re-rating every player because it would change the way the game plays substantially." Not to mention the niche that would really use roster share is probably pretty small in the grand scheme of things and one other thing - they can't hype up their legend teams if people can just create their own. I disagree with their disregard for these features but can understand the logic. Roster share would be great but would be difficult with all the leagues and league rules in place. I didn't say it is a masterpiece and it's not, and they've clearly invested in the offline experience of BeAGM mode even if you think they haven't done enough. I wish they made it more of a priority but unfortunately, this is where we're at.

The problem I have with your reason for no player separation is that Madden has it. Try and run with a scrub against a great defense for instance....I used other examples in my OP. The ratings in Madden are not much different than NHL yet a great runner plays like a great runner, a scrambling QB can take off and an immobile slower one cannot. You can pick apart a weak corner and get shutdown by a stud. There is absolutely no defensible reason why every player in this game plays virtually identical.

[sfpxgalaxy]

Quote: Originally Posted by HipNotiiC_x

People won't do this because it takes time (but then they'll complain that the game will never be sim) but if you change the CPU AI strategies to be more aggressive and pinch more in an offline mode where you're able to switch teams, you'll see how close this game is to "sim" hockey with those changes + slider edits. That's why I'll continue to provide feedback because the game is closer to "sim" than it's ever been as far as the foundation, game mechanics, and now the revamped goalies have taken the game even closer to that complete product we're all looking for.

Could you elaborate on that ? Can it be done in Franchise mode ?