Submission Blocking

[Ksearyback]

I'm having a hell of a time blocking submission attempts. I tend to gravitate toward jiu jitsu fighters and win most matches by submission, GnP, or decision derived by ground dominance. That's to say, I understand a pretty good deal about the game.

One thing still stumps me: blocking submission attempts. I've run into a few submission spammers (who found it as the only way to keep me from grinding them down and submitting them or knocking them out). Do the same rules for grapple block not apply to submissions (block in the direction of the animation)? Most of the ground game is intuitive once you learn tendencies and the animations, but i just can't block submissions.

Anyone want to give me some details on how they block submissions, it would be greatly appreciated. Also feel free to take an easier route and simply post a link to a preciously typed tutorial on this topic, or a YouTube tutorial.

Thank you

[Dave_S]

Re: Submission Blocking

You pretty much deny them the same way you deny transitions. You basically deny the same direction submission attempt is hearing. One thing that helps is throwing a bunch of different submissions in practice mode. The denial for submissions is r2 and the same direction on thumbstick that opponent uses to initiate submissions.

And example is if a triangle from full guard is L2 and right then you deny with R2 and right.

I find it much easier to deny submissions offline. A fair amount of submissions seem to have the same starting animation as transitions so it is possible you have denied some submission attempts when you thought you were just denying transition.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Submission Blocking

You pretty much deny them the same way you deny transitions. You basically deny the same direction submission attempt is hearing. One thing that helps is throwing a bunch of different submissions in practice mode. The denial for submissions is r2 and the same direction on thumbstick that opponent uses to initiate submissions.

And example is if a triangle from full guard is L2 and right then you deny with R2 and right.

I find it much easier to deny submissions offline. A fair amount of submissions seem to have the same starting animation as transitions so it is possible you have denied some submission attempts when you thought you were just denying transition.

So that all makes sense, but it definitely makes it difficult to block submissions based purely on the animation like grapple blocks which are intuitive, right?

Example: If I'm in someone's closed guard and they have the opportunity to armbar, triangle, and omoplata -- couldn't all three animations, theoretically,look like I should block with R2 and right stick to the right (as all three may be based on isolating that arm?).

Another example would be those who have more than one choke from sprawl and the input is L2+ left and right. So say you have a Japanese and a Peruvian necktie from DOM sprawl, when you block, are you waiting for the animation first? What is the key that you look for to block?

Sorry for the very specific questions, but I'm curious how someone whose had success doing this does it. It's pretty damn frustrating to run into submission spammers, who do it solely to stop me from continuing with my ground game, and I suck too much to stop it... (This frustrates me so much that if do pass guard I immediately go to mount and knock them the eff out -- and promptly send them a message; and this is from someone who does not talk trash, I don't use headphones, and I never send messages otherwise.) so yeah, I want to figure this out!

[Ksearyback]

Re: Submission Blocking

BTW... Thank for the help, Dave. You have been super helpful with your time on here

[Dave_S]

Re: Submission Blocking

I look for the animation, once you see it it becomes more obvious. Say you are in submissive sprawl. I don't remember the specifics, but let's say for dominant fighter to the left is Japanese necktie, right is Peruvian necktie, and down is anaconda choke. It dominant fighter tried Japanese necktie the animation starts with fighter moving to left , so you deny with r2 and left. It's same principle as transition denials. If dominant fighter does Peruvian, the animation shows fighter moving to right, and you deny right. If dominant does anaconda the animation seems fairly telling to use r2 and down, same as guillotine denial. From sprawl I think only denial that would use up is when submissive fighter stands to over/under.

I can post a short video tomorrow if it would help. The first paragraph might be confusing.

BTW... Thank for the help, Dave. You have been super helpful with your time on here

No problem, i always have tablet with me so I browse frequently.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Submission Blocking

I look for the animation, once you see it it becomes more obvious. Say you are in submissive sprawl. I don't remember the specifics, but let's say for dominant fighter to the left is Japanese necktie, right is Peruvian necktie, and down is anaconda choke. It dominant fighter tried Japanese necktie the animation starts with fighter moving to left , so you deny with r2 and left. It's same principle as transition denials. If dominant fighter does Peruvian, the animation shows fighter moving to right, and you deny right. If dominant does anaconda the animation seems fairly telling to use r2 and down, same as guillotine denial. From sprawl I think only denial that would use up is when submissive fighter stands to over/under.

I can post a short video tomorrow if it would help. The first paragraph might be confusing.



No problem, i always have tablet with me so I browse frequently.

Thanks. Probably just a matter of fewer reps relative to how much more frequently we get to practice transitions relative to submission denials. Appreciate it

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Submission Blocking

Example: If I'm in someone's closed guard and they have the opportunity to armbar, triangle, and omoplata -- couldn't all three animations, theoretically,look like I should block with R2 and right stick to the right (as all three may be based on isolating that arm?).

It's more about the animation that attempts the submission, and less about what arm he is attacking, or what submission it is.

For example, the arm bar from guard is attempted by putting feet on hips. So no matter what arm is attacked, the denial is always down.

The arm triangle and omoplata are attempted by hipping out to one side. You deny either one by defending to the side the hip out, regardless of which submission is actually being attempted.

And yes, submission denials and transition denials are identical under the hood.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Submission Blocking

It's more about the animation that attempts the submission, and less about what arm he is attacking, or what submission it is.

For example, the arm bar from guard is attempted by putting feet on hips. So no matter what arm is attacked, the denial is always down.

The arm triangle and omoplata are attempted by hipping out to one side. You deny either one by defending to the side the hip out, regardless of which submission is actually being attempted.

And yes, submission denials and transition denials are identical under the hood.

Thanks GPD. I had the concept right all along. I think I just don't get enough practice, so figuring out the timing is my hiccup. (Another hope we get more customized situational and positional practice mode...). But seriously, thanks for confirming

[Dave_S]

Re: Submission Blocking

These show obvious examples, not all are this easy to pick up.

In video I try standup left followed by submission that initiates with left on thumbstick, followed by standup up followed by submission that initiate with up, ect..

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O7NRkrCXJzQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Haz____]

Re: Submission Blocking

I second Kseary on this one 100%

I Also play a heavy grappling style, and sometimes run into submission spammers exactly like what he is talking about.

I can hold average players in just about any position forever, but somehow I can't stop their sub attempts.

Not sure what the issue is, but it's insanely frustrating.

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GPD, do the sub attempts have a shorter denial window or something?

[Dave_S]

Re: Submission Blocking

I can block flying subs all day in practice, but think I've only denied it once online. My grappling skills in game are questionable at best though so I'm guessing I'm probably doing something wrong.

Of course in practice mode I can preemptively deny with r2, and just wait to input with right thumbstick until I see animation, not sure if that works online.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Submission Blocking

I second Kseary on this one 100%

I Also play a heavy grappling style, and sometimes run into submission spammers exactly like what he is talking about.

I can hold average players in just about any position forever, but somehow I can't stop their sub attempts.

Not sure what the issue is, but it's insanely frustrating.

---------------

GPD, do the sub attempts have a shorter denial window or something?

Totally depends on the position and sub ratings. And stamina and GA obviously.

For example, the heel hook from SUB mount is probably the longest denial window in the game.

The arm bar from mount will be a lot faster than the arm drag from guard.

[Dave_S]

Re: Submission Blocking

If you want to practice submission denials online hit me up

I'm either on Dave _2319 or The_Son_ of_Dork

[thelasthurtknee]

Re: Submission Blocking

I can block flying subs all day in practice, but think I've only denied it once online. My grappling skills in game are questionable at best though so I'm guessing I'm probably doing something wrong.

Of course in practice mode I can preemptively deny with r2, and just wait to input with right thumbstick until I see animation, not sure if that works online.

Yes u can hold r2 down online also.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Submission Blocking

Yes u can hold r2 down online also.

Yes, absolutely.

Not sure why people thought holding R2 meant pre-emptively denying.

A pre-emptive denial is inputting a direction while holding R2.

You can hold R2 all day with no penalty.