Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skynet

Hey mate. While it's certainly possible it's by no means trivial to recognize combo patterns, and the consequences of doing it aren't always as shiny as you expect. What you're really asking for is that the AI become good at predicting and countering repeated combos over a long period of time (multiple minutes/rounds). At the moment, the AI has the ability to recognize single strike/target patterns in the short term, meaning if you throw 5 kicks to the body, they'll expect the 6th kick to be body as well, etc. This pattern recognition behavior is only split by punch/kick and head/body. We actually had it more granular than this, and the AI started feeling too robotic and cheesy. Effective prediction isn't always a good thing... Now, that's got nothing to do with actual combo prediction. If 90% of the time you throw a 1-2 you follow up with a 3, then humans will indeed learn that and counter it. Building a system to recognize, and duly respond, to such predictions is not something I've put a lot of time into simply because the scope of that effort is quite substantial, and the benefits haven't been worth the effort. Especially if it ends up making the AI feel more robotic than human. That being side, it's one of the higher skill tactics that I'd love to build into the AI at some point and experiment with, because I think it has the potential to truly transform the AI experience for moderate to skilled users. Fingers crossed the opportunity arises in the future

Thanks for the reply - hopefully it does!

Edit: what I generally want is for there to be rhyme or reason as to why certain things happen, cause and effect, some level of Fight IQ being employed, from both myself and the AI. Perhaps this can be achieved to some extent through different means, not necessarily a pattern recognition system out of thin air. But yeah, hopefully you guys can come up with something in the way of that.

[Kingslayer04]

Another one for @Skynet

We have talked about the AI being a countering god, but there's another side to the coin too: it's also extremely easy to trick. As soon as you get in punching range it'll start swinging. You can then do anything you like until its combinations are over: slip, back away, block, look to counter. As a result, it is extremely easy to gas it in a round or two. It also heavily bites on any and all feints which leads to the same result, arguably even faster. I constantly switch between Pro and Legendary to find the more challenging option but I usually find that on Pro the AI is often too static (tricking it into throwing is still there though), and on Legendary it gasses even faster due to throwing at air even more.

Also, grappling oriented AIs constantly go for takedowns without trying to set them up in any way, to pace themselves or to look for openings. As a result I get a gassed Frankie Edgar midway through Round 2 and when the fight ends he's 4/23. When they do get the TD/Clinch they always look for the most dominant position available: Crucifix from SC or Thai Clinch. They then proceed to attempt it ad hominem no matter how many times you deny it in a row. It's all just pretty mindless.

Hopefully these are addressed in the next game. Cheers!

[AydinDubstep]

Once the weather cools down in the Uk I'll try get some footage but basically on Pro difficulty, you can intercept a lot of attacks and keep hitting the AI while they are quite unable to counter by varying up your timing. To the point where they can't land much at all.

Last I played I remember this but I'll get some footage and really look into it more.

Things that I vaguely remember is delaying your combo lets you fire off that second or third or forth shot really fast as they drop their guard.

Another is feinting the jab and throwing a head kick or overhand. So you keep feinting and either jab to intercept if they didn't bite and if they did bite throw a big kick. Works especially well on Machida and folk who pivot a lot.

You gauge whether the next shot in your combo could connect and throw accordingly and the pay off can be massive.

Another one is feinting jab and cross the body. Some AI like Adesanya cannot defend it. You can sap all their stamina.

The above one with the grapplers, all you gotta do is make sure theres an uppercut in your boxing combos and they will eventually run into it.

Also heavy pressure is deadly vs the AI.

Man, as soon as this weather is bareable imma play it

[johnmangala]

I'm interested in seeing an unbeatable AI difficulty, if possible.

[Skynet]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

I'm interested in seeing an unbeatable AI difficulty, if possible.

It's mildly interesting, but honestly not fun. In fact, it quite a frustrating thing. They just go god mode and start perfectly countering stuff. It's not a competition, and doesn't feel like a fair fight at all.

It's quite immersion breaking.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

I'm interested in seeing an unbeatable AI difficulty, if possible.

Yh like Skynet is saying, it won't be fun. I haven't seen it obviously, but I can just imagine it will just be a counter machine and counter almost 100% of your offense. It will do the perfect counter for everything you do maybe almost 100% of the time. So i'm sure it won't be fun and it definitely won't be realistic.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skynet

It's mildly interesting, but honestly not fun. In fact, it quite a frustrating thing. They just go god mode and start perfectly countering stuff. It's not a competition, and doesn't feel like a fair fight at all. It's quite immersion breaking. Quote: Originally Posted by WarMMA Yh like Skynet is saying, it won't be fun. I haven't seen it obviously, but I can just imagine it will just be a counter machine and counter almost 100% of your offense. It will do the perfect counter for everything you do maybe almost 100% of the time. So i'm sure it won't be fun and it definitely won't be realistic.

Fun is objectively subjective. It may be true that many people haven't been classically conditioned, but there are still some people that enjoy that kind of challenge.

Not exactly referring to the god mode like countering ability the AI demonstrates. To me it feels like the AI is restrained too much by templates... I am referring to fighting an AI that's still vulnerable to being hurt in similar ways but just keeps surviving- like a gauntlet.

The issue imo is the focus on perfect counters, it's been immersion breaking (unrealistic) for many for many years. Instead maybe more sliders which tune such things to the gamer's preference. There are already presets which are defense only (block, sway, move)- balancing these tuner sets can provide a variety of combinations. I feel an unbeatable AI can be more immersive depending on how it's tuned.. imagine fighting Prime Fedor/Jon Jones as the can.

It's true you'd eventually lose but it'd be like fighting the AI unbound... no template but it IQs you then executes => God mode.

[AydinDubstep]

I think for Legendary or perhaps a more difficult AI the following would prove useful without feeling unfair:
- Recognising feint patterns after single feint use. For example if the player fakes a jab and throws a hook, the AI should now know the player could feint a jab and throw after so it should always be ready now for a feint followed up by a strike.
- The AI should get smarter between rounds, so any tendencies picked up in RD1 would be capitalised on in R2 to simulate the AI's corner giving them feedback on what to do. So you have to be careful what you show in RD1.
- The highest level AI should be aware that lunges risk the hazard of a head kick so dudes like Machida should be extra cautious lunging at head kick range. Cross head kick is Machida's kyrptonite.
- Countering should remain the same but the AIs unique combo selection should always favour the most likely to land strikes on the hardest difficulty, and only throw a wild shot like a spin jump kick when there is no counter opportunity for the player. Too many times I can catch legendary AI as they throw a silly strike by using fast strikes like the jav.
- Use of the cage needs to improve. Especially cutting off the cage. The AI needs work on pressuring, especially wrestling types. And they should seldom shoot without a setup on the highest difficulty. We really need combos to have takedowns built in like jab cross hook takedown. The AI should be able to shoot near the cage without big consequence. The uppercut is too powerful vs a takedown. What we need is a low single and low double option, so they really shoot from below the waist and the counter should be a sprawl or risk a knee.
- The push option you guys added is almost always a free hit when the AI uses it. I catch them all the time with a cross or a body kick or whatever just because they don't use it at the correct range. It needs tweaking.