EA UFC Stat Change Request Discussion Thread

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by SHADOW_UFCMMA

i agree with everything except button game. he does such a good job not taking damage from bottom and not getting submitted. really watch back his fight with usman and Gilbert they couldent land when they were on top of him. yes they landed in the clinch, but not when they where on top of him and on the ground. and how the hell does he not get subbed by Gilbert after getting rocked like that? because hes good at what i just said.oh and hes explosive to get up if he has the chance. the only thing is he has trouble with is transitioning and moving on the ground. like if someone is on top half guard over him he does not know how to get them back into full guard to get back up.

That's a nice point. I agree that Woodley does a good job of minimising damage from the bottom.

However, the Bottom Game stat affects transition speed from the bottom (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There is a Sub Defence stat for submission defence. Maybe drop it to 88, not an 87 then? But if it is strictly about transition speed 87 is probably good. He is helpless on the ground and the best he can do is not get pummelled.

On second thought though, those were elite wrestlers and some leeway is due here. 88 it is.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

That's a nice point. I agree that Woodley does a good job of minimising damage from the bottom. However, the Bottom Game stat affects transition speed from the bottom (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There is a Sub Defence stat for submission defence. Maybe drop it to 88, not an 87 then? But if it is strictly about transition speed 87 is probably good. He is helpless on the ground and the best he can do is not get pummelled. On second thought though, those were elite wrestlers and some leeway is due here. 88 it is.

if were talking ea ufc 3 here 100% but id imagine ufc 4 bottom game stat probably has a lot more to do then transition speed. or id like to hope so. guess well wait and see. nonetheless good thinking.

[Kingslayer04]

Cory Sandhagen

As soon as I saw a glimpse of Sandhagen I thought the guy is special, but now I decided to watch three straight fights very closely so I can present my observations here. He is special. This will be a combination of notes, stats and moves based on his fights against Assuncao, Lineker, Bautsita and partially Alcantara.

Notes on the Lineker fight (most of these apply to the other 2-3 fights as well):

— Dillashaw and Cruz-like stance switching. On the offensive, on the defensive, in motion, all the time, flawlessly.
— tremendous footwork, almost never there to be hit. Brilliant evasion.
— good in the clinch but gives up his back very easily, got taken down and stood up fast. Still, giving up his back is a common pattern in his game and was evident in the other fights I watched.
— however, his scrambling ability is outstanding and got him out of trouble in all those instances. If there was a scrambling stat it should have been 98-ish. Move levels probably cover that. Get ups LVL 4
— fantastic head movement and blocking, Cruz style. Never there to be hit clean and if something is in fact going to his head he always has a hand there to block it. If there was a parry stat that would have been very high. Also Philly shells, if that's a thing in UFC 4. However, he gets tagged to the body, that appears to be the easiest target for his opponents to land on. Still, the shots didn't trouble him at all which indicates good Body Health.
— elite conditioning. Midway through R3 a stat showed 109/206 sig. strikes landed. That indicates two things: his stamina and his accuracy.
— ran into a nasty guillotine off of a TD attempt but weathered it until the end of the round. Only one example of exceptional submission awareness, more on that later. Still, truly impressive.

Moves:
— Jab LVL 3
— Superman punch LVL 1
— Rear Front Kick LVL 2
— Lead and Rear teeps to the body LVL. 3 and 4, respectively
— Lead and Rear flying knees LVL 3
— Lead and Rear oblique kicks LVL 2
— Cartwheel kick LVL 2 (good execution, just nonchalant, like a lot of his moves)
— rear spin to the body LVL 2
— Lead body hook LVL 3 + BODY SNATCHER LVL 2
— Switch kick to the body LVL 3
— Jumping lead teep to the body Lvl 2
— Lead elbow LVL 2
— Lead and rear body crane kick LVL 3

Notes on Assuncao fight

My impressions on his attributes were mostly reaffirmed here and will be reflected in my final stats. I'll try to only list new impressions. Note that this is a very good opponent here, so displaying the same level of impressive attributes is remarkable. Also note that Sandhagen is a pressure fighter who sets a very high pace.

TDD — taken down via back take again, slammed. Again shows great scrambling and sub. defence to get out of trouble. Very respectable top and bottom game, but the bottom game is slightly better because he's had to use it much more often.

— avoided getting leg locked here.

Moves:

— rear ? kick LVL 1
— rear straight to the body LVL 2
— rear hook/uppercut to the body LVL 3
— Kimura from Sub. Back Clinch LVL 2
— Leg Lock from Dom. Full Guard LVL 1
— Lead leg kick LVL 2, Rear leg kick LVL 3


Notes on Bautista fight


— Aldo-esque 1-2-rear leg kick combo
— drops him with a lead double knee, reflected in Moves earlier
— gives his back again, slammed again, again scrambles, avoids getting triangled, threatens kimura, finishes with armbar. Again, outstanding submission versatility.

Iuri Alcantara notes
— avoids getting armbarred in an insane manner, proceeds to pound Alcantara out.


Verdict (Stats)

Striking

Striking Speed — 90
Power — 88
Accuracy — 91
Blocking — 92
Head Movement — 93
Footwork — 95
Switch Stance — 98

Total — 92

Grapple

Clinch Throws — 91
Clinch Grapple — 91
Takedown — 89
Takedown Defence — 88
Top Game — 91
Bottom Game — 93
Sub. Offence — 92
Sub. Defence — 97

Total — 91

Fitness

Strike Stamina — 92
Grapple Stamina — 92
Endurance — 90

Total — 91

Health

Chin Strength — 90
Body Strength — 91
Legs Strength — 90
Toughness — 90
Heart — 90

Total: 92


PS: LVL 5 BJJ moves, LVL 4 wrestling moves/reversals; keep in mind those are the ones that are in packs. For the individual moves I've only added what I've seen (to my CAF)


Perks:

Body Snatcher LVL 2
Escape Artist LVL 5
To Your Feet LVL 4
Marathoner LVL 3

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Tyron Woodley Striking Speed — 94 to 91. Woodley has lost a lot of his explosiveness and his speed is part of that. Power — 97 to 95. Slight reduction. He hasn't suddenly become pillow-fisted, but his punches don't have the same venom in them due to him losing his explosiveness. Blocking — 95 to 92. Burns tagged him clean a bunch of times, dropped him twice. 95 is too high. 92 is a good stat. He doesn't get hit much because people respect his power but that may change soon and then even 92 could be seen as generous. TDD — 98 to 93. 98 is insane and he no longer warrants it. Taken down by both the current champion and an rising up-and-comer, nothing like the TDD shown against Maia for example. We've now seen for a fact he's not untouchable wrestling-wise. Bottom Game — 89 to 87. Nothing off his back against neither Usman nor Burns, apart from a quick explosive get up at one point against Burns. His move levels will probably have that covered though. He's quite helpless off his back. 87 may be harsh as his last two fights were against elite grapplers, but anything above 88 is too much in my opinion.

Here's the issue with the TDD request dropping 98 to 93:

Burns, a very well known credentialed grappler, World Champion in Jiu Jitsu, took him down a whopping 2 times, failing 6, so he went 2/8 OVR with takedown attempts. Burns top control is what made the difference, but even then, Woodley did a good job mitigating the damage on bottom. You also have to credit Burns timing on the second TD that he landed on Woodley, as Woodley came forward he executed
a PHENOMENAL double leg with the perfect level change. That's all credit to Burns, and definitely requires a TD Buff to a 93-95, based on the exemplary technique and effectiveness on a high quality opponent + his credentialed background.

Usman took him down a whopping 2 times, out of 6 attempts. Again, the difference here was when he finally got Woodley down, the control and how he was able to stifle Woodley while on Top and in the Clinch.

So against both guys, he was still able to defend more TDs that they could land, but Burns and Usman essentially stifled him with better striking + effective clinch work to get their TDs, it isn't something like Anthony Pettis where he is folding at the first attempt of a TD against the likes of Nate Diaz, or giving up TDs like Antonina Shevchenko against a loose bodylock, he's still showing good solid under/over defense, and clears out when he creates space to do so.

98 ---> 96 is better. He still has the 2nd or 3rd highest TDD in the division IIRC.

I agree with a 92 Block, but really it should be the footwork stat that gets punished for Woodley.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Here's the issue with the TDD request dropping 98 to 93: Burns, a very well known credentialed grappler, World Champion in Jiu Jitsu, took him down a whopping 2 times, failing 6, so he went 2/8 OVR with takedown attempts. Burns top control is what made the difference, but even then, Woodley did a good job mitigating the damage on bottom. You also have to credit Burns timing on the second TD that he landed on Woodley, as Woodley came forward he executed a PHENOMENAL double leg with the perfect level change. That's all credit to Burns, and definitely requires a TD Buff to a 93-95, based on the exemplary technique and effectiveness on a high quality opponent + his credentialed background. Usman took him down a whopping 2 times, out of 6 attempts. Again, the difference here was when he finally got Woodley down, the control and how he was able to stifle Woodley while on Top and in the Clinch. So against both guys, he was still able to defend more TDs that they could land, but Burns and Usman essentially stifled him with better striking + effective clinch work to get their TDs, it isn't something like Anthony Pettis where he is folding at the first attempt of a TD against the likes of Nate Diaz, or giving up TDs like Antonina Shevchenko against a loose bodylock, he's still showing good solid under/over defense, and clears out when he creates space to do so. 98 ---> 96 is better. He still has the 2nd or 3rd highest TDD in the division IIRC. I agree with a 92 Block, but really it should be the footwork stat that gets punished for Woodley.

Hey, welcome back, it's great to get some feedback on my suggestions!

Yeah, you're probably right, I guess I disregarded the actual stuffed takedowns by Woodley and just remembered that he was taken down, which is because that was almost unthinkable pre-Usman. Good point that it was more "well done his opponents" than "Woodley's gotten worse". I may have to rewatch the fight again.


Any comments on my Sandhagen stats? I feared I may have overrated him slightly and realised the stats may need an adjustment after the Sterling fight. And what happened in that fight is the only glaring weakness I see in Sandhagen got exposed instantaneously — he gives up his back all the time. All the time. The scrambling ability got him out of trouble until now but the very best made him pay real quick.

If I have to make any adjustments I'd probably change Escape Artist to LVL 4 but I don't know if I should touch the sub. defence. Maybe I should, 97 to 94-95. The thing is, what Aljamain got him with would be a 2-gate sub in UFC 3, and those are hard to get out of. I'd love to see what you think.



Edit: how I feel talking to Romero recently:

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Hey, welcome back, it's great to get some feedback on my suggestions! Yeah, you're probably right, I guess I disregarded the actual stuffed takedowns by Woodley and just remembered that he was taken down, which is because that was almost unthinkable pre-Usman. Good point that it was more "well done his opponents" than "Woodley's gotten worse". I may have to rewatch the fight again. Any comments on my Sandhagen stats? I feared I may have overrated him slightly and realised the stats may need an adjustment after the Sterling fight. And what happened in that fight is the only glaring weakness I see in Sandhagen got exposed instantaneously — he gives up his back all the time. All the time. The scrambling ability got him out of trouble until now but the very best made him pay real quick. If I have to make any adjustments I'd probably change Escape Artist to LVL 4 but I don't know if I should touch the sub. defence. Maybe I should, 97 to 94-95. The thing is, what Aljamain got him with would be a 2-gate sub in UFC 3, and those are hard to get out of. I'd love to see what you think. Edit: how I feel talking to Romero recently:

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Cory Sandhagen As soon as I saw a glimpse of Sandhagen I thought the guy is special, but now I decided to watch three straight fights very closely so I can present my observations here. He is special. This will be a combination of notes, stats and moves based on his fights against Assuncao, Lineker, Bautsita and partially Alcantara. Notes on the Lineker fight (most of these apply to the other 2-3 fights as well): — Dillashaw and Cruz-like stance switching. On the offensive, on the defensive, in motion, all the time, flawlessly. — tremendous footwork, almost never there to be hit. Brilliant evasion. — good in the clinch but gives up his back very easily, got taken down and stood up fast. Still, giving up his back is a common pattern in his game and was evident in the other fights I watched. — however, his scrambling ability is outstanding and got him out of trouble in all those instances. If there was a scrambling stat it should have been 98-ish. Move levels probably cover that. Get ups LVL 4 — fantastic head movement and blocking, Cruz style. Never there to be hit clean and if something is in fact going to his head he always has a hand there to block it. If there was a parry stat that would have been very high. Also Philly shells, if that's a thing in UFC 4. However, he gets tagged to the body, that appears to be the easiest target for his opponents to land on. Still, the shots didn't trouble him at all which indicates good Body Health. — elite conditioning. Midway through R3 a stat showed 109/206 sig. strikes landed. That indicates two things: his stamina and his accuracy. — ran into a nasty guillotine off of a TD attempt but weathered it until the end of the round. Only one example of exceptional submission awareness, more on that later. Still, truly impressive. Moves: — Jab LVL 3 — Superman punch LVL 1 — Rear Front Kick LVL 2 — Lead and Rear teeps to the body LVL. 3 and 4, respectively — Lead and Rear flying knees LVL 3 — Lead and Rear oblique kicks LVL 2 — Cartwheel kick LVL 2 (good execution, just nonchalant, like a lot of his moves) — rear spin to the body LVL 2 — Lead body hook LVL 3 + BODY SNATCHER LVL 2 — Switch kick to the body LVL 3 — Jumping lead teep to the body Lvl 2 — Lead elbow LVL 2 — Lead and rear body crane kick LVL 3 Notes on Assuncao fight My impressions on his attributes were mostly reaffirmed here and will be reflected in my final stats. I'll try to only list new impressions. Note that this is a very good opponent here, so displaying the same level of impressive attributes is remarkable. Also note that Sandhagen is a pressure fighter who sets a very high pace. TDD — taken down via back take again, slammed. Again shows great scrambling and sub. defence to get out of trouble. Very respectable top and bottom game, but the bottom game is slightly better because he's had to use it much more often. — avoided getting leg locked here. Moves: — rear ? kick LVL 1 — rear straight to the body LVL 2 — rear hook/uppercut to the body LVL 3 — Kimura from Sub. Back Clinch LVL 2 — Leg Lock from Dom. Full Guard LVL 1 — Lead leg kick LVL 2, Rear leg kick LVL 3 Notes on Bautista fight — Aldo-esque 1-2-rear leg kick combo — drops him with a lead double knee, reflected in Moves earlier — gives his back again, slammed again, again scrambles, avoids getting triangled, threatens kimura, finishes with armbar. Again, outstanding submission versatility. Iuri Alcantara notes — avoids getting armbarred in an insane manner, proceeds to pound Alcantara out. Verdict (Stats) Striking Striking Speed — 90 Power — 88 Accuracy — 91 Blocking — 92 Head Movement — 93 Footwork — 95 Switch Stance — 98 Total — 92 Grapple Clinch Throws — 91 Clinch Grapple — 91 Takedown — 89 Takedown Defence — 88 Top Game — 91 Bottom Game — 93 Sub. Offence — 92 Sub. Defence — 97 Total — 91 Fitness Strike Stamina — 92 Grapple Stamina — 92 Endurance — 90 Total — 91 Health Chin Strength — 90 Body Strength — 91 Legs Strength — 90 Toughness — 90 Heart — 90 Total: 92 PS: LVL 5 BJJ moves, LVL 4 wrestling moves/reversals; keep in mind those are the ones that are in packs. For the individual moves I've only added what I've seen (to my CAF) Perks: Body Snatcher LVL 2 Escape Artist LVL 5 To Your Feet LVL 4 Marathoner LVL 3

I'd drop the sub defence to a 95, and be more focused on buffing Aljamain's sub offense. The same thing with Woodley with regards to TDD+Quality of opponent, I wouldn't drop his Sub D THAT much. He was able to scramble with Lineker, a brown belt pretty well, and survived the vicious armbar from the aforementioned Alcantara, who is a Black Belt. Aljamain is a Black Belt + a 2x D3 All American, who can even get subs like an Arm Triangle from BOTTOM (then reversing to getting on top) , showing how goddamn strong he is in grappling positions. Not a lot of people would be able to survive Sterling with a body triangle + a choke slapped on.

Also, I'd drop his Switch Stance to a 94 as well. He shows fluidity and defensive responsibility when he's shifting to Southpaw from Ortho akin to Cruz, but guys like TJ and Sterling actually can fight entire rounds in Southpaw if need be. That's the key difference between TJ and Cruz as well, which is why TJ has the higher switch stance than Cruz.

Sandhagen is definitely faster than a mere 90 strike speed, a 94 would be better to match his new Switch Stance.

I'd drop the BJJ Reversals to a 3, and Wrestling Reversals to a 2. He's a BJJ Brown Belt, most of his reversals stem from attempting some kind of BJJ Sweep, usually from a Kimura.

Slap on Boxing Lvl 2 MT Lvl 3, KB Level 3 (He won multiple WKA Kickboxing titles.

Most guys who are top 5 in their respective division should be guaranteed in the next game, so I'm looking forward to see how he feels if done correctly.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

I'd drop the sub defence to a 95, and be more focused on buffing Aljamain's sub offense. The same thing with Woodley with regards to TDD+Quality of opponent, I wouldn't drop his Sub D THAT much. He was able to scramble with Lineker, a brown belt pretty well, and survived the vicious armbar from the aforementioned Alcantara, who is a Black Belt. Aljamain is a Black Belt + a 2x D3 All American, who can even get subs like an Arm Triangle from BOTTOM (then reversing to getting on top) , showing how goddamn strong he is in grappling positions. Not a lot of people would be able to survive Sterling with a body triangle + a choke slapped on. Also, I'd drop his Switch Stance to a 94 as well. He shows fluidity and defensive responsibility when he's shifting to Southpaw from Ortho akin to Cruz, but guys like TJ and Sterling actually can fight entire rounds in Southpaw if need be. That's the key difference between TJ and Cruz as well, which is why TJ has the higher switch stance than Cruz. Sandhagen is definitely faster than a mere 90 strike speed, a 94 would be better to match his new Switch Stance. I'd drop the BJJ Reversals to a 3, and Wrestling Reversals to a 2. He's a BJJ Brown Belt, most of his reversals stem from attempting some kind of BJJ Sweep, usually from a Kimura. Slap on Boxing Lvl 2 MT Lvl 3, KB Level 3 (He won multiple WKA Kickboxing titles. Most guys who are top 5 in their respective division should be guaranteed in the next game, so I'm looking forward to see how he feels if done correctly.

Good points on the switch stance, I'll watch out for that. 94 ain't that bad I guess, I'm just super impressed how he switches constantly for both offense and defence.

You're right about his striking speed, maybe I feared overeating him on that one...On revision, maybe I'd suggest a 93? For some reason 94 feels a bit high, but it's not necessarily wrong, the guy is fast.

Thanks for the "package" suggestions (Combos and Reversals) — I'm just not fully aware what level has what but I thought Cory has sick BJJ scrambles and wanted him to have high ones without overrating him. I did overrate the wrestling ones though, he may have an issue actually wrestling, I don't like that he gives up his back all the time.

Thanks for the feedback man, I'll have those in mind for my CAF, but the devs should definitely have a look when they're making him in the next game.

[mcm12345]

Yo when will we get a thread stickied for UFC 4? The game's playable for some of us already and there's some stats that should be adjusted from the base game.