"predictive" head movement doesn't work

[Supreme_Bananas]

Right now, there is a big input delay in the head movement, both while moving and standing still. I heard that this was done deliberately in order to make head movement "predictive" and not "reactive".

It sounded logical to me at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I disliked the idea. See, if you want to avoid a strike, there's always been a predictive element in it even with no delay. Most strikes in Fight Night like jabs and straights were way too fast to slip on reaction, you already had to predict those were coming instead of hooks.

But now, with the deliberate delay, you have to predict strikes so far in advance that it renders head movement almost useless. I regularly know which strikes are coming, I move the right stick to slip/sway but I still get hit because of the delay and all of the follow up strikes because getting hit cancels all queued-up input.

I do not think this is a fun gameplay mechanic, nor do I think that it's a realistic one. Sure, great strikers need to predict their opponents' moves, but that doesn't mean they don't have any reflexes.

I hope head movement can be patched so that it reacts instantly to player input, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I hope more people post in this.

We tried fighting for some changes to the head movement but unfortunately most of the gamechangers think this is the way to go.

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I'm finding that I can read the attacker's animations quite well now but it's still a toss up if my input is fast enough or not.

They should increase either the speed of head movement or drop the start up frames as much as necessary.

I agree with your post.

One thing that is currently nigh impossible to do is evade 2 or 3 strikes consecutively with head movement during the opponent's combo, by changing head slots.

Very hard to do even as Anderson Silva.

The safest go to vs AI is duck and let their punches or kicks fly overhead.

The head movement feels extremely one dimensional to me. I don't see much of a reason to do anything other than duck. Pulling is way too risky and the reward of landing a straight punch just isn't worth it. It's fun to accomplish but the risk/reward is off. Swaying to the side is useful but ducking is easily the most effective thing to do in my experience so it's pretty much all I use.

Chaining head movement is way too difficult to actually try if you want to play competitively too. The success rate is very low.

Then there's the input lag too. I think that's more of a problem with the game in general though and won't be fixed. I think they'd have to redo the whole system to take the input lag out.

[iHazCode]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I vote for realism... Predictive seems like a game mechanic which ultimately leads to more gamey mechanics.

Keep it real EA.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Right now, there is a big input delay in the head movement, both while moving and standing still. I heard that this was done deliberately in order to make head movement "predictive" and not "reactive".

It sounded logical to me at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I disliked the idea. See, if you want to avoid a strike, there's always been a predictive element in it even with no delay. Most strikes in Fight Night like jabs and straights were way too fast to slip on reaction, you already had to predict those were coming instead of hooks.

But now, with the deliberate delay, you have to predict strikes so far in advance that it renders head movement almost useless. I regularly know which strikes are coming, I move the right stick to slip/sway but I still get hit because of the delay and all of the follow up strikes because getting hit cancels all queued-up input.

I do not think this is a fun gameplay mechanic, nor do I think that it's a realistic one. Sure, great strikers need to predict their opponents' moves, but that doesn't mean they don't have any reflexes.

I hope head movement can be patched so that it reacts instantly to player input, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

Firstly, there is no input lag. The "delay" is the time it takes to move the head far enough to evade the strike.

Secondly, if you climb the rankings far enough (doesn't even need to get close to top 100), you will see that is not the case.

Thirdly, what fighters are you using? If you're using someone with a low head movvement stat, it's gonna be hard to time your slips. The difference between a top level head movement fighter and a bad one is quite substantial,s o that not everybody slips like Anderson Silva.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Firstly, there is no input lag. The "delay" is the time it takes to move the head far enough to evade the strike.

Secondly, if you climb the rankings far enough (doesn't even need to get close to top 100), you will see that is not the case.

Thirdly, what fighters are you using? If you're using someone with a low head movvement stat, it's gonna be hard to time your slips. The difference between a top level head movement fighter and a bad one is quite substantial,s o that not everybody slips like Anderson Silva.

What are you basing this off. There are multiple threads about it and everyone seems to agree. There must be something.

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

What are you basing this off. There are multiple threads about it and everyone seems to agree. There must be something.

He's saying there is no delay on the head movement specifically (I hope/think). As far as general input lag... It's definitely there in a pretty big way and the head movement also suffers because of it.

I think it's going to get brushed under the rug because fixing it would require rewiring a lot about the game tho.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

He's saying there is no delay on the head movement specifically (I hope/think). As far as general input lag... It's definitely there in a pretty big way and the head movement also suffers because of it.

I think it's going to get brushed under the rug because fixing it would require rewiring a lot about the game tho.

Do you mean "input lag" even offline and bigger than the normal one for wireless controler and TV (like for other games)?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Solid is referring to the start up frames

The game has no animation during the startup of the head movement so you sit there looking dumb while waiting for it to activate.

Imo the start up should be lowered but the speed and active frames should be tuned based on the fighter’s ratings. That would improve responsiveness but still let the poor head movement stand out for other fighters.

The other issue is the way you fully commit to each side which is still terrible, same as the rock paper scissors head movement system

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Do you mean "input lag" even offline and bigger than the normal one for wireless controler and TV (like for other games)?

Yeah. You really don't feel it? Why are there tons of people complaining about it on and off this forum then? On reddit too but I've even heard people away from both of these communities say it.

When there is this amount of smoke... surely there's fire?

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Solid is referring to the start up frames

The game has no animation during the startup of the head movement so you sit there looking dumb while waiting for it to activate.

Imo the start up should be lowered but the speed and active frames should be tuned based on the fighter’s ratings. That would improve responsiveness but still let the poor head movement stand out for other fighters.

The other issue is the way you fully commit to each side which is still terrible, same as the rock paper scissors head movement system

Well, because of the lack of startup frames it a least looks like there is inut lag, which still makes it useless because your fighter simply moves its head too late to dodge

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Solid is referring to the start up frames

The game has no animation during the startup of the head movement so you sit there looking dumb while waiting for it to activate.

I wouldn't say that either.

Yeah. You really don't feel it? Why are there tons of people complaining about it on and off this forum then? On reddit too but I've even heard people away from both of these communities say it.

When there is this amount of smoke... surely there's fire?

Because realistic animations can easily cause an illusion of delay. Illusions everywhere, bro. It's like how people thought they dodged strikes fully on reaction on FNC or even UFC 2.

I'm not surprised at all that most people bite on it.
____________

The basic thing to say that head movement doesn't work is watching some high level play and poit out how people don't use it there or just get blasted when they try.

If anything, head movement is a bit too strong, right now.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Well, because of the lack of startup frames it a least looks like there is inut lag, which still makes it useless because your fighter simply moves its head too late to dodge

Sorry if im not explaining it right

Start up frames is amount of frames before a move becomes “active”.

In game the start up frames are imo too long and that’s the “delay” everyone experiences

I think we need lower start up frames but tune evasion/vulnerability frames depending on ratings.

If the head movement activates sooner we can see our fighter respond sooner even if he/she still gets hit. Then we’d feel more in control vs what we currenty have.

The 30fps vs 60fps also is an issue since the frame rate is half as fast as it should be(60 frames per sec is standard for fighting games)

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I wouldn't say that either.


Because realistic animations can easily cause an illusion of delay. Illusions everywhere, bro. It's like how people thought they dodged strikes fully on reaction on FNC or even UFC 2.

I'm not surprised at all that most people bite on it.
____________

The basic thing to say that head movement doesn't work is watching some high level play and poit out how people don't use it there or just get blasted when they try.

If anything, head movement is a bit too strong, right now.

Why are you always calling it an illusion? I know for a fact in FNR 3 you could evade strikes via reaction and to some extent UFC 2. Yes some of it was caused due to intentionally poor tracking but not all of it.

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I wouldn't say that either.


Because realistic animations can easily cause an illusion of delay. Illusions everywhere, bro. It's like how people thought they dodged strikes fully on reaction on FNC or even UFC 2.

I'm not surprised at all that most people bite on it.
____________

The basic thing to say that head movement doesn't work is watching some high level play and poit out how people don't use it there or just get blasted when they try.

If anything, head movement is a bit too strong, right now.

I've only just started playing today so have yet to play top players (did in beta but I don't remember any kind of high level head movement). They all have quite a lot of time over me so don't want to mess with ranked yet. Would rather get comfortable with things more first.

If you can post a video of players doing this that would help. I understand ducking is very useful but past that... I'm not seeing much use for the other angles used.

I understand ducking can be countered but it's the least likely to be. You wouldn't want to get too predictable with it against someone who is trying to counter it... but as long as you're careful with that... I don't see much of a reason to use sways. They feel like much more of a risk. Maybe ducking consistently and then getting ur opponent to uppercut... then switching to sways could be an effective strategy though?

All I can say is from my experience so far... The head movement feels too one dimensional.