Takedowns

[HereticGabriel]

I don’t know about anyone else... but I find takedowns are worse post patch. I’d rather deal with the super doubles over this. Atleast you could land them.

No matter what I do, outside of a rare super speed, no hud takedown, or the instant takedown off a whiff that causes a spin(spinning backfist, kicks) takedowns seem stupidly slow. Like a full second to fill. Set up with strikes, jab lead hook shoot, jab, duck the hook, shoot, double jab, sway 2-3 shots... doesn’t seem to matter, the range is super small and the length to fill the hud seems to always be roughly 1 second unless its one of those rare lucky times.

The range is weird as well, I can be arms length, shoot a takedown and miss, if theyre backing up and Im going forward its even worse. So how are they working for everyone else?

[Poulpy]

Re: Takedowns

I have a problem if I want to set up with strike before, im going to the mat with bad stamina and i cant deny the next transiton because of that.

New side control to half guard is almost impossible to deny with big top advantage.

[fitch is my homeboy]

Re: Takedowns

I loved the double legs pre patch and I think they incorrectly diagnosed the issue. Now I could be way off here but doubles seemed hard to stop because your grapple meter filled up before the fighter made any contact. By the time you did the denial window had already closed. The computer defending these didn't matter because the CPU decides instantly to either let you TD or not. I don't think queuing a TD offsets their now incredibly slow speed and poor range.

[EJ_Manuel]

Re: Takedowns

C'mon guys. They spent a whole dev cycle on this revolutionary striking system. They don't care if you can get a TD.

[Tidge]

Re: Takedowns

I've actually had decent success landing a TD off of a 1-2 etc.

[Boiler569]

Re: Takedowns

TDs should be much more dependent upon stamina levels

There should also not be the ability to 'switch' between denying a TD and denying a Clinch --- you should be locked-out if you input the wrong action, like on the ground/etc.

After a certain threshold, TDs should not be deniable. This threshold includes many variables --- stats, perks, damage, grapple advantage, stamina level, distance of the takedown, etc

When all of those are combined --- if you have a major advantage in 'most' the categories --- your takedown is essentially un-stuffable.

So if you have 97 TD Stat, you time your TD perfectly off a missed 3-strike combo, and you have more stamina than opponent ----

You get an auto-takedown. 0 Frame Denial Window.

Or if you have a Lvl 4 Takedown Perk, opponent is rocked, and your stats and stamina are both slightly higher than theirs....insta-takedown.

etc.

Definitely don't want TDs to be 'cheeze' but they definitely need some help.

"In Real Life" sometimes a fighter knows a TD is coming but just can't stop it because of one (or many) factors, including damage, stamina, etc

[honorandgrit]

Re: Takedowns

TDs should be much more dependent upon stamina levels

There should also not be the ability to 'switch' between denying a TD and denying a Clinch --- you should be locked-out if you input the wrong action, like on the ground/etc.

After a certain threshold, TDs should not be deniable. This threshold includes many variables --- stats, perks, damage, grapple advantage, stamina level, distance of the takedown, etc

When all of those are combined --- if you have a major advantage in 'most' the categories --- your takedown is essentially un-stuffable.

So if you have 97 TD Stat, you time your TD perfectly off a missed 3-strike combo, and you have more stamina than opponent ----

You get an auto-takedown. 0 Frame Denial Window.

Or if you have a Lvl 4 Takedown Perk, opponent is rocked, and your stats and stamina are both slightly higher than theirs....insta-takedown.

etc.

Definitely don't want TDs to be 'cheeze' but they definitely need some help.

"In Real Life" sometimes a fighter knows a TD is coming but just can't stop it because of one (or many) factors, including damage, stamina, etc

I don't believe there should ever be auto takedowns because guys like jones and Aldo exist.

But I believe windows should be extremely small for defending a takedown at certain points and takedowns should be chain-able

[chia]

Re: Takedowns

I don't believe there should ever be auto takedowns because guys like jones and Aldo exist.

But I believe windows should be extremely small for defending a takedown at certain points and takedowns should be chain-able

I don't think that auto-Takedowns are the answer either but rocking someone or someone completely gassed (by their own doing) denying a Takedown on someone with 95+ TD is just ridiculous. That's the only word you can use to describe it. Their denial window should be so small that they have to hit it perfectly to deny the Takedown at that point. If the devs want EVERY Takedown to be setup then that's something else entirely but I don't wholeheartedly agree with that either. It's just weird that we go from one extreme that should have NEVER been in the game (the lightning fast Double from cross octagon) to people shooting for Takedowns like they would drill them on white belts or newbies in wrestling class.

No wrestlers in real life shoot as slow as the Takedowns come out now in real life. None of them. Not in practice. Not warming up. They just don't.

[HereticGabriel]

Re: Takedowns

It takes basically a full second for the hud to fill.. I dont know if theres some trick or special thing to do... but setting them up dont work.. I can throw strikes, slip a strike and shoot and its a 1 second transition that gets denied regardless of what they were doing, unless they just didnt deny.

In ufc 2 I had perfect timing. I could time my takedowns that wear near instant to the point Id get msged saying Im hacking and cheating, using lag switches, everything in the books. Now unless I get lucky, or time it off a spin so you shoot into backside control, I cant get a takedown for the life of me 9/10 times I’m denied, even off whiffed headkicks, someone spamming hooks, etc

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Takedowns

I think some of you guys might be overlooking the limitations of any engine that is based on physics, but ostensibly can't fully recreate all the different physical possibilities, for many reasons. In some instances it's just not possible (yet), and in others, it's an issue of creating more problems by fixing one problem.

We should also consider the field you're up against. I assume that most people's statements pertain to online play, and regarding online play, most of the people that you face (the fighters themselves, not necessarily the users) will probably be good at grapple defense.

Usually, in a statistical sense, the average fighter will have average grapple defense ability-- however (and this isn't a good or bad thing inherently), when most users online are likely to pick fighters who don't have glaring weaknesses and/or are very skilled in certain areas, which can include grapple defense, the level of grapple defense you face on average will increase, regardless of the user's skill level.

The idea I'm getting at is that maybe, even by standards of realism, maybe some of us might be overestimating how easily we should be able to do this or that, and when it's harder than expected, it gets labeled as an exploit (which is accurate sometimes, but not always, IMO).

As someone who prefers tactical fighting and favors grappling, I think the system what we have now is very satisfactory. I've only played 4 ranked matches, but I've played a ton of unranked.

In ranked, my 2 wins are from ground-and-pound with grapplers, and in unranked, I have a lot of success with the grapple game, so long as I set up my takedowns by either striking prior to shooting, mixing in the clinch, and/or or being more aggressive with shooting when I have grapple advantage (with the opponent against the fence and/or when they throw kicks and miss).

I'd obviously be able to speak more clearly once I play more ranked, but my overall point is that if you pick your spots realistically and go for takedowns at the right times, it becomes a lot easier, in my opinion.

[chia]

Re: Takedowns

I'd obviously be able to speak more clearly once I play more ranked, but my overall point is that if you pick your spots realistically and go for takedowns at the right times, it becomes a lot easier, in my opinion.

This doesn't change the fact that the Takedowns (all of them) are now TOO slow.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Takedowns

This doesn't change the fact that the Takedowns (all of them) are now TOO slow.

But if they were faster, there's a good chance that would become an exploit. There's no perfect system. Something will almost always be too [something].

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Takedowns

Take downs and grappling are just gonna be bad until it's hopefully revamped next game tbh. They are not going to be able to be balanced with the way they are currently implemented. We need SO much to make takedowns feel realistic, no matter what they patch, I think we are going to have serious problems with them.

Animations need to look better, I've still seen some crazy gliding attempts. We need a medium between a denial and successful TDD to represent that power struggle in getting a TD. We need some TDs to be WAY harder to deny while in the middle of throwing heavy combos. Those are just 3 of the main factors that I doubt we see happen any time soon.

[Thetruth11]

Re: Takedowns

All they had to do to stop crazy td was fix the range OR the speed not both

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[netsfreak]

Re: Takedowns

Pre patch I could always figure out away to the ground. Now I face some players in UT that can stop every takedown no matter what my grapple advantage is. Is there an auto takedown counter right to clinch?

My fighter has 98+ takedowns. Opponent less than 85 tdd. Type scenarios.

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