Re: The few remaining issues I have with the game as a grappler
Good post. Paragraph #1 and #2 are perfectly written and I agree 100%. Those two points are undeniably the two biggest problems with the grappling.
To re iterate for anyone reading this, those two biggest problems are
1) The clinch denial window is too generous.
2) The stamina penalty for failed takedown attempts is disproportionately harsh, when compared to the penalty for striking output.
It was so well written I see no need to elaborate, but I’m gonna expand on point #2 cause it’s just such a huge problem.
Standard double legs and single legs, especially with WRESTLERS like DC, Colby Covington or Corey Anderson, should NOT put you at a stamina disadvantage. Hell, it shouldn’t cost more stamina than missing a leg kick. In fact, I’d even argue that failing takedown attempts should work to your ADVANTAGE in the stamina dep’t, if you’re using a wrestler with superior grapple stamina. I mean, if I have 94 grapple stamina and my opponent has 88, shouldn’t they gas more than me from stuffing my shots?
As it stands, just one failed double leg with DC is enough to put you at an immediate, unrecoverable stamina disadvantage. That’s just wrong.
Look at Cain vs JDS... Cain was shooting after every combo. JDS would defend the takedown, but he was getting forced to defend the takedowns and gassed. I’m watching Corey Anderson vs Glover Teixera right now, and Corey was shooting TDs early in the fight just to force Glover to defend. In what universe does DC gas himself by shooting takedowns, while his opponent throws constant strikes and has more stamina?
Proposed solutions to unfair stamina penalties:
1. Fighters with superior wrestling and grapple stamina can gain a stamina advantage by making their opponent defend standard takedowns. This way, relentlessly grinding your opponent by forcing them to defend wrestling can be a thing. Plenty of good Wrestlers don’t mind their opponent stuffing their takedowns. They’re well-conditioned for wrestling, and are happy to force their opponent to wrestle by defending TDs, knowing they’ll tire eventually. See Cain vs JDS, Colby vs RDA, GSP vs Penn 2. If Cain vs JDS happened in EA UFC 3, Cain would be limping around gassed from the failed TD attempts by round 2.
2. Incentivize knees and frames to counter takedowns. In cases where you have inferior grapple stamina to your opponent, you can avoid getting grinded and losing stamina by *framing or countering with knees. Make knees a pre-set, reliable outcome for double legs, similar to the way ducking consistently avoids headkicks. One knee could change the fight, so good wrestlers couldn’t just spam double legs for a stamina advantage. At the same time, throwing a knee would leave you vulnerable to a straight punch or overhand, so you couldn’t spam the knees either.
You could still deny/sprawl takedowns the normal way, but if your opponent has superior wrestling and grapple stamina, you’ll be better off framing or countering with a knee. Because if your opponent is just relentlessly making you defend takedowns with the intent tiring you out, standard denials (RT down, same as it is now) will tire YOU more than them (if they have superior grapple stamina and a strong wrestling base).
*3. Add framing mechanic. Implement it in the same way as the “fast retreat” mechanic (RB/RT), or “push” mechanic (block + lead uppercut). Use framing immediately after striking to stifle clinch or takedown attempts. The window would be ridiculously small, but if done correctly, framing would spare bad grapplers from being grinded by wrestlers like Colby with relentless TD attempts. However, it would leave you more vulnerable to punches, and it wouldn’t save you if your back is to the cage. A frame would be a fascinating addition; it could allow for the fighter shooting the TD to abandon the TD, land a punch then re-shoot, etc.
4. Allow fake TDs, and punish ill-timed denialswith sprawl animations and/or stamina penalties. Players shouldn’t just be able to press RT+down without any penalty, yet if their opponent shoots, they get a massive stamina advantage. Simply pressing the takedown defense input should cause a reaction every time, and that reaction should leave you vulnerable to an uppercut or knee. I mean, fake TD into a flying knee should be a thing.
Last edited by Good Grappler; 07-22-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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