Immersive, feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

[Gion]

*Shout out to WarMMA for his recent transition thread which gave me these ideas.
*This is NOT a replacement to the current grappling system, just an addition

We've all heard it before. "This grappling system doesnt "feel" like grappling". And I agree to an extent. There is logic behind everything, but the FEEL is lacking.
While reading warMMAs post about minor transitions and the use (or lack thereof) the left stick I got to thinking.

INTRO TO MOVEMENT POSITIONING:
The left stick will be used to place ones body weight in that said direction. This will strengthen certain skills like a particular submission or control, while degrading other skills like ground and pound/passing based on position. For instance, if I am in side control dom I have three areas to work in.
Regular side control
Tight side control with neck pressure (more control less GnP. Lower gate arm triangle)
Screenshot_20181112-175646_Google.jpg
And a loose striking based side control (less control higher damage strikes)
Screenshot_20181112-192725_YouTube.jpg
These will be undeniable movements. Not transitions.

FUNCTION:
It will function similar to For Honors guard system Screenshot_20181112-175428_Google.jpg
Seamless positioning, flick the stick in the desired direction and stay in that position until a transition occurs
A downward flick will result in a hold position, this will not deny all transitions, it will simply make them easier to deny. This WILL cost a small perm stamina drain due to the strength it is using to hold the opponent down and less reliance on transition blocks alone

DEEP DIVE:
Mount
Mostly a sub movement position. Move to either side of hip for increased defense of ground and pound and slight increase for same side sub trans to half guard. Very vulnerable to arm triangle chokes. Instant transition to GnP side control available for dom 20181112_194637.jpg
Dom will have the movement option of putting one hand on the mat, and striking with the other allowing for fast block breaking GnP and tighter control, but can be swept using arm trap sub mount sweep


Half Guard
Screenshot_20181112-183539_Google.jpg this will allow lesser gate kimuras and easier passing. Only body strikes allowed in this position. Sub will be able to pull off electric chair/banana split submissions and specific sweeps

Screenshot_20181112-195641_YouTube.jpg
Faster more dangerous half guard strikes but easier get ups

The Back
Back control can now freely move between back mount and back sitting positions. Dom back mount can sink himself over opponents back for easier rear naked chokes and armbars, at the cost of a sub buck off get up. Back sitting dom can stretch out opponents body on top of theirs for similar benefits

Wrap up:
I hope all of my images uploaded with no problem lol. If the entirety of this mechanic doesnt end up in game I truly hope it inspires somebody smarter than me to make something like it work. I believe this movement positioning system will set apart grappling styles and give us back the feel of grappling



Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[ragreynolds]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Great idea. I really do think that some sort of left stick implementation is going to be the way that grappling gets made to feel more like actual grappling, and I think that what you’ve detailed is certainly a solid foundation that could be built upon.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

This is a system that could have a ridiculous amount of options and make different styles of grappling. Therefore, each player is going to have positions and sub-positions they favor. Instead of the current system where half guard is the be-all end-all with the side control-back side control loop secondary.

We would have to make sure they get a high level BJJ and wrestling guy on full time to make sure all the positions make sense though. For instance, your back control position makes no sense mechanically. You can't seamlessly transition between back mount and back sitting. You can do certain things to make getting those positions easier, but they require the opponent to make an action.

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

You can't seamlessly transition between back mount and back sitting. You can do certain things to make getting those positions easier, but they require the opponent to make an action.

Ok let me reiterate and reevaluate that idea, that was badly worded. From back mount the top player would use wrist control pull out the base and roll both into back sitting. Now that I think about it, this would fit better as an actual transition



Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Baby steps of this system could be implemented at launch, then our regular post launch support would gradually build the system. Not every sub position will have specific contextual transitions based on the top players base. For instance sub side control will have the same transitions for all movement based positions

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Do you have any ideas about wrist control (and hammering with the other hand), the way Khabib does it? Do you think it can be implemented with your suggestion of "down on the left stuck", which holds position + a strike button? Actually I guess I answered my own question. But then again, can we have holding + striking in your version?

I also wonder about controls for the fighter on bottom in terms of movement around, e.g. trying to get near the cage to get up (which could be a bad idea against a Khabib, who'll be able to lock the legs like he does...). Maybe this can only be available if the top fighter is in a non-holding "mode". Ah, variety.

Edit: oh, you talk about placing a hand on the mat, but I'm wondering about wrist control.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Also, if the bottom fighter knows the top fighter likes to go for a certain sub-position, there should be an option for him to use the left stick as well in order to head him off and make that sub position difficult to get, forcing another play.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Do you have any ideas about wrist control (and hammering with the other hand), the way Khabib does it? Do you think it can be implemented with your suggestion of "down on the left stuck", which holds position + a strike button? Actually I guess I answered my own question. But then again, can we have holding + striking in your version?

I also wonder about controls for the fighter on bottom in terms of movement around, e.g. trying to get near the cage to get up (which could be a bad idea against a Khabib, who'll be able to lock the legs like he does...). Maybe this can only be available if the top fighter is in a non-holding "mode". Ah, variety.

Edit: oh, you talk about placing a hand on the mat, but I'm wondering about wrist control.

It can be done ... But I think there's to sides to it animation and mechanism .

The D pad or the screen on the controller is a good place to start .

But the mechanism is were the problem lies . In a stack guard struggle or full mount struggle you want to hold a wrist and deliver a strike or even against the cage . For it not to be OP the mechanism for wrist control has to be well thought out or balanced.

Clinched against cage excessive attempts for wrist control should be give rise to verbal warning from the ref for glove grabbing . ( That would be fun eh ? )

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RetractedMonkey]

Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I like the use of the D Pad better than the left stick actually. That way each position has four sub-positions in relation to the D Pad. The left stick moves the players on the ground like in UD3 (except, this movement should be slower than UD3) in order to put them on or away from the cage. The bottom fighter should be able to maneuver themselves as well, but with less authority and if the top player wants to move, he gets priority with a slight speed decrease or increase depending on where the bottom fighter is trying to move.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Do you have any ideas about wrist control (and hammering with the other hand), the way Khabib does it? Do you think it can be implemented with your suggestion of "down on the left stuck", which holds position + a strike button? Actually I guess I answered my own question. But then again, can we have holding + striking in your version?

I also wonder about controls for the fighter on bottom in terms of movement around, e.g. trying to get near the cage to get up (which could be a bad idea against a Khabib, who'll be able to lock the legs like he does...). Maybe this can only be available if the top fighter is in a non-holding "mode". Ah, variety.

Edit: oh, you talk about placing a hand on the mat, but I'm wondering about wrist control.

I have two seperate answers on this one. The holding and hitting I would like to see implemented in full guard so as to not buff defense and offense at the same time in strong grappling positions
Like gsp holding Condit down by the shoulders and shooting off elbows
Now for the khabib style wrist control. As we saw from the first round khabib vs Conor, the sub must give the dom the opening for wrist control. Conor rarely tried to base and get up like Barbosa and johnson so the opening for that mounted wrist control beatdown was very small. I think that position should only be available as a reversal to any get ups in side control, half guard, and mount. If not get ups, we could make it a signature denied transition of sorts. So if you're mounted and try to hip out and push my leg down to half guard, for the cost a bit more stamina I would put you into mounted wrist control

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

https://goo.gl/images/EbFvm7

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Also, if the bottom fighter knows the top fighter likes to go for a certain sub-position, there should be an option for him to use the left stick as well in order to head him off and make that sub position difficult to get, forcing another play.

They could hold the right stick down to hold like in mount, just added to all positions. If not then there should be certain transitions sped up for sub in these movement positions, like how dom has easier passing in the modified half guard

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[WarMMA]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Really good ideas man. This is the kind of thing the posturing on the ground game needs. I like the idea of being able to put my weight on opponents even after I break their posture control and being able to create space for heavier GnP.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

They could hold the right stick down to hold like in mount, just added to all positions. If not then there should be certain transitions sped up for sub in these movement positions, like how dom has easier passing in the modified half guard

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

I don’t like that idea because the right stick should still be used for transitioning and it only provides one option (hold) instead of four options. It’s the difference between holding in general or being able to hold the right arm, left arm, holding the head, or body. We’re looking to replicate grappling as accurately, which means as many options as possible. The option for a general hold also entirely eliminates my idea of stifling your opponent’s preferred gameplan in exchange for stifling every gameplan. This limits the mental aspect of trying to outwit your opponent.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I don’t like that idea because the right stick should still be used for transitioning and it only provides one option (hold) instead of four options. It’s the difference between holding in general or being able to hold the right arm, left arm, holding the head, or body. We’re looking to replicate grappling as accurately, which means as many options as possible. The option for a general hold also entirely eliminates my idea of stifling your opponent’s preferred gameplan in exchange for stifling every gameplan. This limits the mental aspect of trying to outwit your opponent.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Grappling with the right stick will be the same as our current system, these ideas are meant to be fused with the current system not replace it. So holding would be similar to the same action as holding in mount, so if you dont want your opponent to posture up in side control, you would hold. Want to stifle your opponents positional movement? Hold. I would like it to cost perm stamina so you can regain short term stamina. I'd like holding to be transitional though. You can deny attempts to get out of hold at the cost of long term stamina, to replenish short term stamina so you're giving something of value in exchange for not getting instantly submitted or smashed into the canvas. Any dom stamina advantage would obviously mean easier breaks from the hold and the hold can be denied.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app