Overpowered fighters

[Tyeanisbae]

I love that the gameplay developers have done patches to fix gameplay bugs and fine tune the gameplay and stuff throughout UFC 3, but one thing I don’t get is why fighters and in some cases characters that are clearly over powered haven’t been nerfed.

A few examples of clearly overpowered fighters are Zabit Magomedovsharipov in featherweight, Paulo Costa in middleweight and Andre Bishop in heavyweight. To be clear I don’t mean there aren’t fighters that can beat these fighters in other areas, I am saying their strengths are too pronounced in game.

My problem with these fighters and characters being in the game is it makes certain fighters in certain divisions worthless. For example Andre Bishop eclipses half the heavyweight divisions best strikers with his quick punches knees and even kicks. Compare him to another heavyweight like Andre Arlovski who is known for his fast hands he still completely outshines him in almost every category. I wouldn’t mind this much as Bishop is meant to be a world class BOXER but this would mean he would have below par ground stats to even the odds but someone thought it would be a good idea to make his grappling stats better than most of the heavyweight divisions strikers which to me is ridiculous from a balance standpoint.

From a promotional standpoint I can understand why they made both these fighters great everywhere but instead of ruining a lot of fighters in the division why not make these fighters great for a limited time only like a season or 2.

Honestly I just hope with new additions to the in game roster (icons and others) they give the stats based on how good they were in real life and how good they’d be compared to fighters in the division if they were to fight. And give fighters appropriate body types (unlike zabit)

And before anyone says it I DONT CARE about the stupid storyline of Bishop and Isaac Frost training with MMA fighters so it gives them great ground stats. Because it is a stupid idea to make them so overpowered. Because now a lot of fighters in heavyweight are useless.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyeanisbae

I love that the gameplay developers have done patches to fix gameplay bugs and fine tune the gameplay and stuff throughout UFC 3, but one thing I don’t get is why fighters and in some cases characters that are clearly over powered haven’t been nerfed. A few examples of clearly overpowered fighters are Zabit Magomedovsharipov in featherweight, Paulo Costa in middleweight and Andre Bishop in heavyweight. To be clear I don’t mean there aren’t fighters that can beat these fighters in other areas, I am saying their strengths are too pronounced in game. My problem with these fighters and characters being in the game is it makes certain fighters in certain divisions worthless. For example Andre Bishop eclipses half the heavyweight divisions best strikers with his quick punches knees and even kicks. Compare him to another heavyweight like Andre Arlovski who is known for his fast hands he still completely outshines him in almost every category. I wouldn’t mind this much as Bishop is meant to be a world class BOXER but this would mean he would have below par ground stats to even the odds but someone thought it would be a good idea to make his grappling stats better than most of the heavyweight divisions strikers which to me is ridiculous from a balance standpoint. From a promotional standpoint I can understand why they made both these fighters great everywhere but instead of ruining a lot of fighters in the division why not make these fighters great for a limited time only like a season or 2. Honestly I just hope with new additions to the in game roster (icons and others) they give the stats based on how good they were in real life and how good they’d be compared to fighters in the division if they were to fight. And give fighters appropriate body types (unlike zabit) And before anyone says it I DONT CARE about the stupid storyline of Bishop and Isaac Frost training with MMA fighters so it gives them great ground stats. Because it is a stupid idea to make them so overpowered. Because now a lot of fighters in heavyweight are useless.

I'd argue that Zabit's stats are "based on how good he is in real life". Maybe not his move levels, body type and perks. I'd argue Costa's power is also based on how powerful he is in real life.

The Bishop and Frost stats **** up HW ranked but its hard to argue realism with pretend fighters and a pretend story line.

[tomitomitomi]

I've been whining about character unbalance for close to a year now though I would attribute guys like Costa's popularity to his relative strength compared to his B-tier ranking.

I would also add that in addition to guys having very defined strengths they also tend to have marginal weaknesses, especially when compared to the bottom 90% of the division.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

I've been whining about character unbalance for close to a year now though I would attribute guys like Costa's popularity to his relative strength compared to his B-tier ranking. I would also add that in addition to guys having very defined strengths they also tend to have marginal weaknesses, especially when compared to the bottom 90% of the division.

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of accurately depicted strengths and weaknesses - if someone's very good at something, make them very good at it, and if they're really bad at something, make them really bad at it. Or anything in between, depending on real life. There's usually always something to balance things out. Jones is one exception but even he has his boxing which is not as good as the rest of his skillset. Plus using a guy like Anthony Johnson against him (who would have tons of power) would be a very valid option as a counter-pick, though you'd have to finish Jones in the first or second, because he'd have really **** stamina. I'd love for all of these fighter pros and cons to be as accurately represented as possible.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of accurately depicted strengths and weaknesses - if someone's very good at something, make them very good at it, and if they're really bad at something, make them really bad at it. Or anything in between, depending on real life. There's usually always something to balance things out. Jones is one exception but even he has his boxing which is not as good as the rest of his skillset. Plus using a guy like Anthony Johnson against him (who would have tons of power) would be a very valid option as a counter-pick, though you'd have to finish Jones in the first or second, because he'd have really **** stamina. I'd love for all of these fighter pros and cons to be as accurately represented as possible.

People say that in theory but many comp players hate that in practice. I've heard SO many complaints about players who I think are accurately rated who comp/ranked players call unusable because something that they are a bad it in real life makes them crappy to use under the current meta. What follows is a complaint that people only use the same fighters.

So I really dont know what to do. The more realistic we get with the stats...the more comp players may complain.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

People say that in theory but many comp players hate that in practice. I've heard SO many complaints about players who I think are accurately rated who comp/ranked players call unusable because something that they are a bad it in real life makes them crappy to use under the current meta. What follows is a complaint that people only use the same fighters. So I really dont know what to do. The more realistic we get with the stats...the more comp players may complain.

I'm not just talking about the stats themselves, but also about issues like individual stamina and power being as faithful to real life as possible, e.g. even worse cardio for heavyweights, much greater power, etc.
That being said, could you give a specific example of what you described?


Edit: when I'm saying all that about realism I'm not imagining it under the exact current striking system. I agree landing shots should be more difficult than it is now, so tracking should be toned down a lot, new blocking mechanics will possibly be added and probably a bunch of other things will change too. I don't see what I'm suggesting as merely amping up the damage and stamina tax sliders. Obviously other changes have to happen alongside the coveted instant knockouts and gassed Rumbles.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

People say that in theory but many comp players hate that in practice. I've heard SO many complaints about players who I think are accurately rated who comp/ranked players call unusable because something that they are a bad it in real life makes them crappy to use under the current meta. What follows is a complaint that people only use the same fighters. So I really dont know what to do. The more realistic we get with the stats...the more comp players may complain.

You're never going to please everyone and that is fine. Different people value different things. I couldn't care less about the universe mode or whatever it is called yet I'd understand if it gets included. It is up to you to decide what you prioritize. Personally I'd prefer fighter stats/perks/moves reflecting and promoting their real-life styles. For instance, GSP players should be incentivized to avoid brawling. However, there is always going to be a meta which favors certain styles over others but that is not in your control.

Quote:

There's usually always something to balance things out. Jones is one exception but even he has his boxing which is not as good as the rest of his skillset.

He's shown vulnerability to leg kicks against DC and Rampage. Nobody has really been able to take him down so his bottom game is relatively unproven (=meaning it shouldn't be extremely high) and he doesn't hit particularly hard (his GNP is more dangerous but there's a perk for that) as he is not really a KO artist. DC leaned into his headkick which is almost guaranteed rock in the game. Obviously he shouldn't be awful in any of those stats but there's enough to keep him in control I think.

I'd consider Mighty Mouse a bigger exception but he won't be in the next game.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

You're never going to please everyone and that is fine. Different people value different things. I couldn't care less about the universe mode or whatever it is called yet I'd understand if it gets included. It is up to you to decide what you prioritize. Personally I'd prefer fighter stats/perks/moves reflecting and promoting their real-life styles. For instance, GSP players should be incentivized to avoid brawling. However, there is always going to be a meta which favors certain styles over others but that is not in your control. He's shown vulnerability to leg kicks against DC and Rampage. Nobody has really been able to take him down so his bottom game is relatively unproven (=meaning it shouldn't be extremely high) and he doesn't hit particularly hard (his GNP is more dangerous but there's a perk for that) as he is not really a KO artist. DC leaned into his headkick which is almost guaranteed rock in the game. Obviously he shouldn't be awful in any of those stats but there's enough to keep him in control I think. I'd consider Mighty Mouse a bigger exception but he won't be in the next game.

Yeah, it'd be amazing for players to be quite forced to play like the fighter, to benefit maximally from their best abilities and suffer their weaknesses the same way - I'm imagining Barboza's kicks - beautiful, fast, a **** ton of damage, a bad idea to check them, but then you have poor Barboza in close range and dominated by good wrestlers. We could give examples until the end of the year. I've discussed this in another thread and it was said "Stipe doesn't have any of the weaknesses you mention to balance this KO power you want (poor grappling or stamina)" - the chink in the armor should be able to come from a ton of potential places, but most importantly - at heavyweight, no matter who you are, you can always get starched yourself. Etcetera, etcetera.