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Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

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Old 05-01-2019, 03:21 PM   #41
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.



Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.
What they are saying is I need my opponent to fight me on my terms so that I can A) win and B) have fun doing it. And when that isn't happening I'll ask the devs to force them to fight on my terms.

That's a simplified version of the argument but that's the argument I'm hearing.

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Old 05-01-2019, 03:40 PM   #42
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
Actually you are asking me to defend it.

"Couldn't you use the same argument for grappling?

I edited out 'running' and replaced it with 'grappling' in your quote. Would you say the same for grappling?"


"Are you suggesting that comp would be opposed to a basic fundamental tool like the second gif that can be used offensively- cage cut, or defensively- circle away, because they don't want the first gif? I don't think you have shown that."

Now I ignored the first question because its asking me to defend a bull**** argument ("running is a problem in the game") by substituting another word with it and I dont want to waste my time defending an argument I dont agree with.

I'll respond to the your second statement though. Before we had the back sprint and when many of the footwork moves like lunges were less responsive......COMP PLAYERS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING BEING CONSTANT IN THE GAME. They were complaining about running when you literally couldnt run away from your opponent.

Now that we have those tools AND THEY ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING. Even though if you watch comp fights, no one is using the back sprint in them.

So you think that simply because a movement tool can be used on defense to cut off the cage that these players wont complain about it being used to run? Really?

One issue that you and I consistently have is you present an idea (usually a good one), I tell you why other parts of the community may have an issue with that idea and you then ask me to defend their argument....even though it isnt an argument that I agree with.

Part of that is because there arent many hardcore comp players here. The names I see on ESFL cards arent regular members of OS. So there is no one for you to debate with from that side and I can see that it is frustrating.

The only option I have at this point is just to not respond to these threads but that does you and other OSers a disservice. Why? Because the community here sees a good idea that everyone in the forum seems to agree with, thinks "The devs should add this. Everyone at OS loves this idea." and then gets frustrated when the devs dont add that idea. What they dont take into account is that there is a very vocal side that is arguing specifically against ideas like this. I'm here to give you a little glimpse at what the overall discussion is on each issue...not just what hardcore sim players want.

Last thing: You want to know why it took the devs so long (about 8 mos) to address movement in a significant way? Because comp players didnt consider it a priority and there were other issues that the community as a whole agreed were more pressing.

If comp players werent complaining about running, movement wouldve been made a priority earlier. I was having full out arguments with comp players about movement and how it needed to be buffed in April '18 but their pushback is part of the reason (not all) that changes were put on the back burner.

So I'm not confident that simply because a movement tool can be used defensively, that comp players wont complain about it. **** some of them objected to increasing the angle at which you can ircle out when side lunging a strike.
Actually I am asking for clarity. If I wanted you to defend the argument I would've asked you the reasons why you think circling shouldn't be included. I'm instead asking you to clarify the argument you present for them.

I tried to show you that the argument you presented can be applied to grappling. So in other words would you present their argument if comp were complaining about grappling the way they complain about running?

The logic you presented can be applied to the Driving TD, so should that not have been added?

You provided some clarification any way. You say even tho running can be countered, that may not stop complaints from comp. This is the most insane thing I've read considering how much people like you used to hammer casuals/sim for not using all the tools then complaining about pressure. Same thing we see here but instead we have comp being sheltered when you should use the argument on them that they need to use the tools.

This is especially alarming because we have people like you always going on about comp playing the game right and what not, yet here we have them not adapting and using the right tools (in this case grappling is already a hard counter to running, supplement with circling along to cut off counters circling away or 'running').

Again a middle ground is having the feature but have it adjusted. You could make cage cutting more effective v running.

Should the rest of us all be restricted because a minority doesn't want to use all the tools? It's hypocritical.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:58 PM   #43
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.

Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.
They style is boring and not fun, 0 strategy 100% muscle memory reaction.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:03 PM   #44
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
The devs regularly play online.


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Interact with the community via playing the game. Youll discover more problems that way
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:11 PM   #45
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

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Originally Posted by Lauriedr1ver
Did you actually read what I said? I said a lot of yous dont, most comp players don't want this. Again this is one of mine, phillybois and Aholberts first discussions on here FCB x Finlay X btw if you want to check.

You can't just say stuff like that when I know from experience its not true at all.

Bro.... Your switching your position. Competitive players do want this. I took LOTS of backlash. Know why? I bitched about this on the forum everyday. I made seeeeeeeevvvveral threads on footwork buffs. If there was a reason people dont listen to you its because your acting ignorant
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:48 PM   #46
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmangala
Actually I am asking for clarity. If I wanted you to defend the argument I would've asked you the reasons why you think circling shouldn't be included. I'm instead asking you to clarify the argument you present for them.

I tried to show you that the argument you presented can be applied to grappling. So in other words would you present their argument if comp were complaining about grappling the way they complain about running?

The logic you presented can be applied to the Driving TD, so should that not have been added?

You provided some clarification any way. You say even tho running can be countered, that may not stop complaints from comp. This is the most insane thing I've read considering how much people like you used to hammer casuals/sim for not using all the tools then complaining about pressure. Same thing we see here but instead we have comp being sheltered when you should use the argument on them that they need to use the tools.

This is especially alarming because we have people like you always going on about comp playing the game right and what not, yet here we have them not adapting and using the right tools (in this case grappling is already a hard counter to running, supplement with circling along to cut off counters circling away or 'running').

Again a middle ground is having the feature but have it adjusted. You could make cage cutting more effective v running.

Should the rest of us all be restricted because a minority doesn't want to use all the tools? It's hypocritical.
I would present their argument for grappling if their argument was one of the main reasons why a change people in this community wanted wasnt happening. That all I did here.

What I bolded is an example of why I have gone away from responding to your posts over the last few months. You dont know what the **** I've been saying behind the scenes. You dont know what arguments I've made over the past year regarding sim elements that should be added to the game. I have never "sheltered" comp players.

Whats hilarious to me is you have the gall to claim that I'm sheltering them when you pretty much just hide on OS and make your posts to a community that sees things 100% the way you do. Thats easy. You arent really debating anything. I dont see you posting this stuff on Reddit or the ESFL discord or anywhere where the majority might disagree with you. You are preaching to the choir and that easy. You arent attempting in anyway to show that people outside of this small community (yes the OS UFC community is small) that people agree with what you are asking for.

I spent MONTHS arguing for things that (as I've stated time and time again) dont really affect offline players (which is what I am). Things that really only affect online players who want a sim game. Its also why I've gone away from making gameplay arguments because its a thankless job. The majority of comp players want a game that is less like a sport and more like a video game. They have more pull for a number of reasons but over the past 2-3 years, Ive taken more time arguing for the inclusion of sim elements in the game than anyone behind the scenes other than MartialMind.

Last edited by aholbert32; 05-01-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:49 PM   #47
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

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Originally Posted by 1212headkick
Interact with the community via playing the game. Youll discover more problems that way
Explain to me how that works. What is the difference between that and the community providing video feedback about issues in the game?
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:55 PM   #48
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Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRizzzle
What they are saying is I need my opponent to fight me on my terms so that I can A) win and B) have fun doing it. And when that isn't happening I'll ask the devs to force them to fight on my terms.

That's a simplified version of the argument but that's the argument I'm hearing.

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The argument is a little more nuanced. They want to have fun and have a chance at winning. They dont consider winning using "running" (I hate that term because it isnt actually running) fun. They dont mind losing if they lose playing in a fun action packed way.

For example, I would love to see true cage grappling. To the point where if someone was skilled enough they could hold someone against the cage and grind them out for 3 rounds. I dont know if comp players would like that. I actually think they would hate that. Not because they couldnt learn how to cage grapple and do the same thing but because they dont consider winning that way fun.
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