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Strike output and stamina

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Old 06-04-2019, 12:51 PM   #41
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Re: Strike output and stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeroXVII
... if hook range was to be implemented so the hooks would be a lot more consistent in beating the jab in game.
Could you please clarify this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereticFighter
Here's the problem with that: even a little lag, and head-movement can become useless. I had a fight yesterday with a jab spammer, head-movement failed me 4 times in a row with just a tiny bit of lag, 5th time it works only to go right into a hook.
Stationary 1-1s or 1-2s aren't necessarily beaten by a slip upper. That's intentional. It was a big change that happened quite a while ago. Initially, duck upper was too meta. Then the big change happened and, for some time, only slipping jabs and straights could beat a 1-2. A while later, stationary slipping lead hooks ("lazy hooks", when you lean to your rear side) and advancing rear hooks (when you lean to the lead side) were sped-up to beat the 1-2s, too. If you want to land a slip upper safely, it has to be against openings bigger than a 1-2.

Last edited by Solid_Altair; 06-04-2019 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #42
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Re: Strike output and stamina

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Originally Posted by Solid_Altair
Could you please clarify this?


Stationary 1-1s or 1-2s aren't necessarily beaten by a slip upper. That's intentional. It was a big change that happened quite a while ago. Initially, duck upper was too meta. Then the big change happened and, for some time, only slipping jabs and straights could beat a 1-2. A while later, stationary slipping lead hooks ("lazy hooks", when you lean to your rear side) and advancing rear hooks (when you lean to the lead side) were sped-up to beat the 1-2s, too. If you want to land a slip upper safely, it has to be against openings bigger than a 1-2.
There is no Hook range in game.

There is an Elbow Range, Punch Range, Kicking Range, Step Kick Range, and Out of Range.

The lack of an actual hook range is what skews things and leads to those hooks reaching far back when they're not supposed to. There was even a bug where the hooks were registered as straight strikes at one point.

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Old 06-04-2019, 04:14 PM   #43
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Re: Strike output and stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeroXVII
There is no Hook range in game.

There is an Elbow Range, Punch Range, Kicking Range, Step Kick Range, and Out of Range.

The lack of an actual hook range is what skews things and leads to those hooks reaching far back when they're not supposed to. There was even a bug where the hooks were registered as straight strikes at one point.

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Sorry. I should have been clearer. My doubt was how the lack of a hook range prevents hooks from being used to counter straights.

On another note, there is also "half-kick" range, which applies to lunging punches and the overhand.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:42 PM   #44
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Re: Strike output and stamina

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Originally Posted by Solid_Altair
Sorry. I should have been clearer. My doubt was how the lack of a hook range prevents hooks from being used to counter straights.

On another note, there is also "half-kick" range, which applies to lunging punches and the overhand.
There was a thing implemented where if the person was too close and an improper range, the straight will be stuffed and therefore have no stopping power.

If somebody is at the range where their straight should be stuffed and lack power due to not having full extension on the strike, the hook SHOULD win, but that is not the case. Even against the jab.

Up close, if things played out as written, if two people have a mirror match and load up Jab Uppercut Hook vs Hook Uppercut Hook, and they were at elbow range, or somewhere close to that where the jab doesn't get full extension, the Jab Uppercut Hook will win despite the jab not being fully extended and being in improper range, and it will generally win the trade.

I have been at hook range plenty of times and still lost to straights despite the person throwing it being at what I had believed to be my proper range. It's baffling.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:56 PM   #45
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Re: Strike output and stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeroXVII
There was a thing implemented where if the person was too close and an improper range, the straight will be stuffed and therefore have no stopping power.

If somebody is at the range where their straight should be stuffed and lack power due to not having full extension on the strike, the hook SHOULD win, but that is not the case. Even against the jab.

Up close, if things played out as written, if two people have a mirror match and load up Jab Uppercut Hook vs Hook Uppercut Hook, and they were at elbow range, or somewhere close to that where the jab doesn't get full extension, the Jab Uppercut Hook will win despite the jab not being fully extended and being in improper range, and it will generally win the trade.

I have been at hook range plenty of times and still lost to straights despite the person throwing it being at what I had believed to be my proper range. It's baffling.
Great point

That was changed because we didnt have sny footwork options when the game first came out. The stopping power should be removed from straights at close range.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:10 PM   #46
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Re: Strike output and stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeroXVII
There was a thing implemented where if the person was too close and an improper range, the straight will be stuffed and therefore have no stopping power.

If somebody is at the range where their straight should be stuffed and lack power due to not having full extension on the strike, the hook SHOULD win, but that is not the case. Even against the jab.

Up close, if things played out as written, if two people have a mirror match and load up Jab Uppercut Hook vs Hook Uppercut Hook, and they were at elbow range, or somewhere close to that where the jab doesn't get full extension, the Jab Uppercut Hook will win despite the jab not being fully extended and being in improper range, and it will generally win the trade.

I have been at hook range plenty of times and still lost to straights despite the person throwing it being at what I had believed to be my proper range. It's baffling.
That's not about the jab vs the hook, though. It's about the full combos. Neither have stopping power in such situations. And a proper hook range wouldn't change these things, either.

The jab combos tend to win the trade because the jab lands first and allows the follow ups to land first, too. There might also be some vulnerability subtlety about landing first. But this really isn't about stopping power or hook range.

Also, the detail that the hook should deal more damage at close range is already in the game. The cross and the lead hook have the same base damage, but one is better from afar and the other from up close.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:18 PM   #47
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Re: Strike output and stamina

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Originally Posted by Solid_Altair
That's not about the jab vs the hook, though. It's about the full combos. Neither have stopping power in such situations. And a proper hook range wouldn't change these things, either.

The jab combos tend to win the trade because the jab lands first and allows the follow ups to land first, too. There might also be some vulnerability subtlety about landing first. But this really isn't about stopping power or hook range.

Also, the detail that the hook should deal more damage at close range is already in the game. The cross and the lead hook have the same base damage, but one is better from afar and the other from up close.
I definitely feel that if you're at an improper range, regardless of if you landed first or not, you should be at a disadvantage always landing a stifled jab.

The hook does do more damage, that I already know, but I'm referring to the STOPPING power of Straight vs Hook at their specific ranges. I vaguely remember GPD remember stopping power from empty slip straights and from straights that were way too close and had that little dainty touch animation.

Interesting that you note that there is a half-kick range that wasn't noted in the Deep Dive that GPD dropped though.

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Old 06-04-2019, 07:33 PM   #48
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Re: Strike output and stamina

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeroXVII
I definitely feel that if you're at an improper range, regardless of if you landed first or not, you should be at a disadvantage always landing a stifled jab.

The hook does do more damage, that I already know, but I'm referring to the STOPPING power of Straight vs Hook at their specific ranges. I vaguely remember GPD remember stopping power from empty slip straights and from straights that were way too close and had that little dainty touch animation.

Interesting that you note that there is a half-kick range that wasn't noted in the Deep Dive that GPD dropped though.

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The half-kick range was added pretty late, along with the lunging jab and cross. Before that, the Overhand used to have kick range.

And about straights vs hooks, the point I'm trying to make is that if you're comparing trading combos, stopping power is out of the picture. If you think the results of the trades is bad, then to change that you'd need to come up with something else - not stopping power changes.
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